Just throwing this out there, but it is entirely possible that the new system could award a piece to a rogue (or really any class with applicable stats changed) with for example, agi, stam, hit, crit that could fit itemization needs of another class. And yes, if it wasn't an upgrade for that rogue but was for someone else in the raid it's a waste. That's all the original poster that brought up the Rogue/Shammy scenario was getting at.
My main concern is that the new loot system would distribute loot to those that just do not need it. Currently I often use the raid finder even though I no longer benifit from it loot wise becuase it gives out Valor points. Would the new system select me to recieve loot even if I did not need anything at all and was only there for some other reason? In the current system I can pass on loot that I do not need, thus giving others a chance for the item. I realize that some people go crazy and need on everything that they can get, but not everyone is so hastily greedy. It feels like the MOP system has the potential to waste loot on people who do not need it. Perhaps something could be put into place to check if you can use loot from a boss or they could make it so that you can still trade any piece you recieve if it woud be wasted for you.
Gaming the system:Will it be possible to game the system by switching specs a few seconds before the boss dies thereby getting off-spec gear?If you can switch specs in combat - go ahead.
Currently I often use the raid finder even though I no longer benifit from it loot wise becuase it gives out Valor points.Heroics are way cheaper and faster valor grind. Would the new system select me to recieve loot"You don't have option to pass."(q)You don't even have option to need. Or greed, in that regard. Loot rolls happen automatically upon boss death, and game deciding if you win something or not.
"You don't have an option to Pass" What if a ring for a shaman drops and goes to the rogue who doesn't need it? "You can't trade this item". Kinda silly, but good ideas.He says quite clearly the game will award gear it considers appropriate for your spec. In other words, the rogue will never win a shaman ring, and vice versa.Enhancement shaman use the same rings as rogues, so tecnically, a rogue could get a " shaman ring ". Unless you meant that the ring was class specific.
The best way to explain this, I think, is to get a little nerdy and use some dice. Just as an example because I saw my D&D bag and I think that it'll make sense.So let's say you're in a group and you kill a boss. Here's how the loot would be distributed:
Now that that's explained... One of the problems I have, as others have mentioned before, is with not being able to be trade loot. if a warrior dps gets a piece of gear that they already have that would be an upgrade for another dps in the raid, they can't trade it. While there's all sorts of problems in LFR with people needing on gear others can use and then selling it to them, there's gonna still be issues of "that person needs it but I got it and don't even want it or need it and all I can do is vendor it".I don't know just how this could be fixed in a way that would reduce the whole bargaining bit while still letting people give or trade something that they don't need to someone who can use it.Another issue, also brought up before, is that of off-spec. A resto shammy with enhance off-spec would still benefit from a good agility ring, but wouldn't have any shot at it if they were healing. For this, I think that a possible solution (if not a likely one) would be to take off-spec into account during the roll and if there's nothing on the loot table that will benefit your main spec, instead of getting non-gear loot you'd have a chance at OS loot. So if that boss doesn't drop anything that would benefit healers (not likely but bear with me), but does drop a few pieces of agility gear, the shaman, if they won the roll to get loot, would have a chance at that gear instead.I really look forward to seeing more about this system and how they address the problems that people are voicing. If nothing else it's already shaping up to be much better than the current LFR loot system.
Imho this is an awesome method to avoid ninja loot, but the Off Spec loot will be dead :(No more crap loot in BH (and raid like this) :)
I wish AoEL was better explained. This could be very awesome, but leaves me with a lot of questions. Rather than blanket a bunch of questions, can anyone that has either seen this on PTR or played MMO style games explain more in detail how this (might) work(s).Besides that, everything is very exciting... can't wait!Thanks!
On the AOE looting question, The explanation that I have seen is all dead mobs in x distance who you are allowed to loot will come up in a single loot window.
If 4 mages are in the raid all rolling for mage items, having 1 less mage roll for it would benefit the other 3 get something. This is of course up to the player's choice and nothing from the system or other playersNo they wouldn't. Each person has a completely independent chance of getting loot, that's the whole point.
imo this looks pretty solid. I'm sure there are issues that will come up, as something this big will most likely not be perfect, but as a whole I like the idea of a healer not stealing my dagger.
If 4 mages are in the raid all rolling for mage items, having 1 less mage roll for it would benefit the other 3 get something. This is of course up to the player's choice and nothing from the system or other playersNo they wouldn't. Each person has a completely independent chance of getting loot, that's the whole point.You would be right, given current info, that the bosses don't drop only x amount of loot and instead gives 1 out to each person who score a hit on the lotteryThen off course you get people with extremely good/bad luck on the lottery system
Then off course you get people with extremely good/bad luck on the lottery systemWhich just proves that RNG is the true enemy of the Warcraft verse heh.
Imho this is an awesome method to avoid ninja loot, but the Off Spec loot will be dead :(If you read the original post, you'll see the following to address questions of off-spec and x-morg gear:We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we're not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could. I've seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially "I'm happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use," and maybe that's the kind of approach we could take, but let's make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.
I think you misinterpreted GC's explanation. A Rogue would never end up with a Shaman ring under this loot system, if the Rogue wins the right to receive loot that loot will ALWAYS be what is right for his/her class and spec. The point is that if someone wins a loot roll, the loot will never be unusable. The only time the situation you describe would be relevant is if say 2 Combat Rogues are in the party:One rogue wins loot and one rogue doesn't, the one who wins loot receives an item that they don't need but the other can use. In this case the ability to trade items would be excellent, but even this situation can only occur in LFR or World Boss kills.
Then off course you get people with extremely good/bad luck on the lottery systemWhich just proves that RNG is the true enemy of the Warcraft verse heh.I won't argue that. The RNG seems to treat me like a favorite chew toy. :P
What I see here is a great idea, that has one flaw. The problem is, that one flaw makes the great idea horrible. Honestly, I would expect that Blizz will get it right before it goes live, because its just too big to ignore. Everthing in there is great. It removes almost all the possible loot drama that is currently in the LFR. But not having something in place to allow for reasonable gearing of off-specs is just a huge oversight. Especially with the removal of Valor gear, this leaves almost no good way to gear a second spec without a guild. It also reduces the replay value of LFR content. Once you have all the gear, you will have no reason to continue running LFR (aside from gold, which really isn't a big deal for many of us), so after a few months, LFR is going to hurting for players. The only way I see to get off-spec gear under this system would be to que for a spec you are not geared for, and hope to be carried through. (Que DPS in tank gear....ect) I think simply adding a way to choose which spec you want gear for would work fine. Since the system pre-determines who wins loot seperate from what loot is won, it should make no difference if you choose to recieve tanking plate, or DPS plate. Just make the option something you have to choose, and you have to stick with for the duration of the run. (no cherry-picking)
Everthing in there is great. It removes almost all the possible loot drama that is currently in the LFR. But not having something in place to allow for reasonable gearing of off-specs is just a huge oversight.Except of course you could obtain your initial offspec gear in the same manner as you did your main spec gear, by running 5 mans, crafted gear and rep gear. That way you can enter LFR suitably geared off spec in your off spec role.
Everthing in there is great. It removes almost all the possible loot drama that is currently in the LFR. But not having something in place to allow for reasonable gearing of off-specs is just a huge oversight. It was not an oversight. They even addressed that in the post.