Great interesting news
Legendaries need to be redone. Put in two different quest lines for a "new" Sulfuron Hammer or Thunderfury and so forth that cuts steps if you have the old one. Legendaries should be rare and have a rare drop as part of the quest as well as steps you need to grind resources, gold, etc... for. So it's part RNG, part effort. You only get it if you're lucky, but if you can't get it if you're not also hard-working and do all the background work as well. But the end result should 1) be rare and 2) Grow with you as a character, like the Heirlooms do as people level up. This should be based on item level though, not the character's level. Then you don't need them to be transmoggable because people will be wearing them always because they are relevant items.And Thori'dal continues to be chopped liver =(
That's definitely why we put up transcripts--we also got some feedback that the music was too loud, which sucks, but we have them all typed up so at least no one is missing anything =)There are even questions and answers that aren't in the videos, or longer versions of the answers.
About the vanilla player models (pre-TBC), could you guys please ask Mr. J Allen Brack to read the comments on the two pages below?http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/artwork/wow-mop?keywords=&view#/wowx4-artwork-18http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/artwork/wow-mop?keywords=&view#/wowx4-artwork-19
I'm waiting for these:So we decided to back off of that. We’re trying the solution with commas, and K’s, and M’s, and to be honest, it helps a lot, and our hope is, by 6.0 or 7.0, players are demanding the item squish, and by then it’s not controversial at all. It’s like a celebration when we finally do it.
You just killed a boss with your LFR group. You automatically roll. What are you rolling on? You're rolling on your character. Rather than having 4 different looting tables, each with 25 people rolling on something they don't actually need (that's 100 rolls in total), it will be one looting table with 25 rolls in it. The top numbers there, say 4 or 5 toons win the roll, will get the item from that boss that their spec can use. This way, if one set of mail agility gloves drops and both a hunter and an enhancement shaman get the highest rolls, they will both get a copy of the gloves. No more feelings of being cheated.If that's how it will be, then it will be FAR more abusable and more cheated. Right now, if, for example, Madness drops 2 Rathraks 2 Maws, it's a good chance that caster and healer might get their piece. Only 6 healers and ~6 casters will roll. With the new system, ALL 25 people can roll. They mentioned that now people roll for vendor, DE, abuse or at least for friends. Only "because they can roll". So imagine 25 people rolling. Now if your item did not drop, it's sad but it is. If it did - you know you might win it among limited amount of people. With 25 people all you know is that you have 1\\25 chance always. Yes, always, but still 1\\25. And still no restrictions. I would as well do what do now - dualclass runs with a friend, 2 dks, 2 priests, 2 casters. He rolls for me, I roll for him. He wins vanquisher token, I get it. This change is not helping the situation, it just changes the odds.What I sincerely hope they would do eventually, is locking LFR to normals and heroics lootwise. Blizzard says "So many people now RAID". Is doing 5k autoattack with 30k solohealing shammy called "raiding"? Is suiciding on first platform on madness or on ultraxion called "raiding"? It's worse than a dungeon. And why is that? Because EVERYONE does LFR. Not just casuals craps it was originally oriented for. Not only does it lead to above-stated problems, but also tunnels people into doing LFR just for the sake of "additional" weekly loot. Even a heroic raider might want OS 384 trinket. Right now LFR has ~3 segments of people: hardcore-decent, casual-noob, noob-afk. In terms of dps that's ~35-25k, 25-15k, 15-5k. First segment usually rolls for DE, abuse or a rare upgrade(which he knows he wont win). Second rolls primarily for an upgrade, as they are either casual raiders or alts. 3rd segment rolls because it can roll, similar to first segment, but without practical realization. Now imagine that by completing LFR, people wont be able to loot normals and heroics. What would it do? It effectively removes 99% of first segment, 80% of second, and even some of third. Who is left? Performance testers from 1st and 2nd, and those who do not have raiding team from 3rd.What happens then? Average raid dps drops by ~60%. Even easiest bosses become enrage-wall. Autoattackers get kicked on sight. Forums are filled with whines and canceled subscriptions.Or, people are actually forced to learn the fight. To progress on the most basic level. To "raid" this very simple content. Not clean it like a dungeon in 30 minutes. And people who liked this will try to find their normal team and improve. This is what I supposed LFR was aimed for. I was wrong. Blizz just gave a chewtoy to kittens.If such thing would ever exist, the only remaining part to this dream would've been the ability to queue for particular boss, not just a "wing". It's very common to have failraid drop at 2\\4(Siege), and have to redo these two bosses for the last two. Or to get a 3\\4(Madness) queue because some especially noob group cant do madness. With actually "progressive" LFR, these cases would've increased by dozens. And this is why queueing for particular fights may be better, as ALL people who get dropped at 2\\4(Siege) will want to start from 2\\4.Oh, and obviously the problem that would happen next is lack of people. If 60%+ do not do LFR because they not longer "have to", how can you fill 25man raid at different time zones? This is a facepalm to Blizzard. And another proof why it is chewtoy for kittens. Everyone knows that 25man raids have 3 resses, can finish a fight with actually dead people etc. It allows much more flexibility. Much less chances of having 5 melee dps 10man group. So Blizzard's idea was to squeeze 25 whosoevers into LFR and make them "raid". Some do 5x normal job, some do 0.2x normal. Balance prevails. And should there be an option that people are not enough(hence the 10-25min queues), raids do not happen. Having 10man raids would burden servers? Be unbalanced? Be harder to control than a handful of 25 at a time? To get as much with least effort it became. If LFR was 10man with abovesaid logic, it would've been "raiding", for casuals, for people who want to "taste" raiding without having to go through all the trouble of static teams(and god knows there is trouble). But alas, I apologize for this wall of whine.
What are you even trying to say? Other than "I don't like LFR and people should stop liking things I don't like."?
I hope Mist of Pandaria brings back the reason why i got so hooked to this game , being Amazing
What are you even trying to say? Other than "I don't like LFR and people should stop liking things I don't like."?I am deeply sorry for your lack of ability to see further than your nose. I stated the downsides of LFR, the things it failed at. I said that it is all approved by Blizzard as it makes people "raid more". Finally, I apologized for the wall of text.But what are YOU trying to say? Other than "I like things he doesn't like so he is automatically wrong"?
And as Street says in his interview, they are working on changing the loot rules to make it better.
So imagine 25 people rolling. Now if your item did not drop, it's sad but it is. If it did - you know you might win it among limited amount of peopleExcept that with the new LFR loot distribution system you dont actually roll against other players, please read this quote from ZarhymA few salient points here:First, other players will not affect your loot in any way. Another player winning will not cause you to lose. Another player winning a mace will not mean that she took your mace. If there are many rogues in the raid, your chance of winning a rogue item is not diminished. We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are.Second, the item you win will be “useful” in the sense that it’s potentially usable by your current spec. This does not mean that warriors will get leather because warriors can equip leather (at a huge stat loss). It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have. It just looks and says “You are a Holy priest, so here is a random item chosen from the Holy priest-appropriate items that this boss can drop.”This system is a different feature from the “bonus roll.” When choosing to cash in on your bonus roll, you will always win something, but it may only be gold. If you win an item, the game again looks at your spec and only awards you an item appropriate for your current spec (using the priest example above).Finally, this loot system will only be used in Raid Finder, and possibly for world bosses. We might consider using it for Dungeon Finder depending on how it works out. However, we still like the basic design of organized groups of guilds or friends deciding who should get loot. We will also no doubt iterate and refine the system once players can try it out in beta.taken from here http://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=4217173624
We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are.Isn't it same as now? You may not roll "against" 25 people, but you roll "among" 25 people. Your chances to be within the top 4 are still 1\\25. Only proves my statement.It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have.Yeah right. So now, following the example of Holy Priest, take Ultraxion. I have the offhand, and now specifically need t13lfr. I take my roll among 25 people for "the item I could use from this boss". I get another off-hand. Only because I "can use it". There isn't even a guarantee that I will get the item I need, so I will have to roll and roll till I get this new RNG to give me the item I need. All the while I take the chances to win from other people. Doesn't it look next to same as the current situation, where people need only because the "need" button is available?This gets worse and worse with every new explanation...
And that's how the loot rules have been since the start of WoW; there's always that RNG factor in it. But no; if you hit need and won, you would get an item that is useful to you off the boss, no matter how many other priests are also in the top 4 rolls.
I do not mean that I would "steal" the offhand. But if I will roll for weeks to get a precise item out of 2-4 possible pieces from one boss, whereas some people need any possible loot - there are still only 4 winners, and it happens as if I take their chances for my single needed piece.Also, now you have limitations like class\\material gear, so you cant just "need" everything. If there indeed will be just one "need" or "greed" button for random item that you could use - amount of DE rollers, ninjas and whoever else will just rise to heavens.Maybe I seriously don't understand the upcoming system, but based on the descriptions, it seems horrible.
So, the fact that they are going to make it so that things are properly itemized by Class to stop the idiot griefers from taking things is a bad thing?To go back to the priest off-hand: If it's labeled as such to the mechanic, no matter how many mages, warlocks, Resto/Boomkin Druids, and Resto Monks hit need, only the priests will get it(at least that's what it looks like).
We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are.Isn't it same as now? You may not roll "against" 25 people, but you roll "among" 25 people. Your chances to be within the top 4 are still 1\\25. Only proves my statement.It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have.Yeah right. So now, following the example of Holy Priest, take Ultraxion. I have the offhand, and now specifically need t13lfr. I take my roll among 25 people for "the item I could use from this boss". I get another off-hand. Only because I "can use it". There isn't even a guarantee that I will get the item I need, so I will have to roll and roll till I get this new RNG to give me the item I need. All the while I take the chances to win from other people. Doesn't it look next to same as the current situation, where people need only because the "need" button is available?This gets worse and worse with every new explanation...The new system is much better for loot distribution AND just for the psychology of losing. First of all, your math is wrong.. if there are 25 people and 4 people win an item, then the odds of wining are 4/25, not 1/25.But lets give a simple exampleMail gloves drop and cloth gloves drop.Hunter rolls 88Enhance Shaman rolls 87Mage roll 23In the current system, the hunter would get gloves and the mage would get gloves. In the new system, the hunter and shamen would get gloves.Now for the psychology. Again, the sole purpose is to get rid of ánger´ players sometimes feel in LFR... is it misplaced anger, sometimes, but many times it is legitimate. One of the biggest reasons for anger is for people rolling need on non-upgrades, or for non-spec items. With the new system, even if you ´lose´a roll and don´t get an item, you can never get mad at another player for getting an item. That hunter who got gloves he didn´t need had no way of not getting them.. he didn´t take your item... he never even pushed ´greed´. In fact, if you had ´rolled´ better, you might have gotten the same exact item he did. You are rolling against yourself. Another big thing this helps with is class representation in LFR. Ever get into one with a bunch of people your spec, but no rogues? Now instead of looking at raid comp and knowing you will have to roll against 6 other people if your item drops.. you know from the beggining that on every boss you are going to roll against 25 other people and the top 4 rolls will win.Lastly, I will address your hate towards LFR. First off, you talk about the auto-attack and suicide people.. yeah great.. apparently you never raided in Vanilla. In vanilla, half the raid was AFK for a large majority of it and only played during boss fights. I remember MC waiting at a boss for the 10 dps who went AFK for the last 30 mins of trash to show back up. Having 1 or 2 DPS be brain-dead in LFR is not that big of a deal. I really haven´t experienced it myself, most of the time the people who die right away are obviously new to the raid (checking their gear). The other big reason ´big tough raiders´ should embrace LFR is because of a thing called business justification. You can bet your sweet arse that the person who decided to implement the original Naxx had a strong talking to by the bean-counters at the end of Vanilla. The more people that do LFR, the more budget raids will get as an overall portion of the wow budget. If you have done DS on both normal and LFR.. you can tell that they built the normal version, then cut out junk to make the LFR version.. So basically because of LFR, Blizzard will have more budget to add more raids, and then at the end, just cut out some boss abilities and throw it up as LFR and justify the expense of ´raids´ by saying 80% of players have done that raid compared to the 1% who did Naxx
People don't get loot, people get mad. That the bottom line.Didn't get an item this LFR? the player starts grumbling. Didn't get one next time? Complaints. 3 strikes? They'll start reaching for the cancel button again.
(Edit: Read PS.) A mage would not win mail gloves as he simply can not "need" for them. And even if he could, I don't understand why 23 is higher than 87, unless you mean 87 being "greed".Also, please, it's not kindergarden. No need to hide all the "anger" stuff behind That hunter who got gloves he didn´t need had no way of not getting them.. he didn´t take your item....Now instead of looking at raid comp and knowing you will have to roll against 6 other people if your item drops.. you know from the beggining that on every boss you are going to roll against 25 other people and the top 4 rolls will win.Exactly. Now a lot of LFRs see 10 dks or druids, 5-6 priests or whoever else. And they either don't mind or leave, as such roll competition is already abnormal. So in MoP we are going to see 25 rollers ALL the time? Is that supposed to solve the situation?Honestly, I think I clearly said what it means in previous post. The only thing you said is that it is different psychologically. But not practically. Practically it will be far worse than the current system, where you at least know what you are rolling for and against who. In MoP you may end every LFR feeling how unlucky you are that you lost to good innocent 24 people who haven't any other choice but to press "need".And please, I do not hate LFR. I am just disappointed. What was supposed to be casual raiding became something worse than a dungeon. As you clearly confirmed and approved - it is nothing more than a moneymaker for Blizzard. So my chewtoy statement far above is still correct.It is true, I haven't raided in Vanilla. Thank goodness. And I don't know how hard or bad was Naxx, apart from comments of people who liked it.I am totally "for" Blizzard's income from LFR. But the way they want to balance it's already shaky loot state is beyond me.P.S.: To make a simple example:Now:Out of 8 bosses, 4 bosses dropped an item you need one way or another. Every time you roll, it is between 5-10 people. You know what you roll for. For each item restrictions apply, so amount of ninjas is somehow limited.MoP:All bosses drop something that you may use. Every time you roll among 24 people.(It is not that you have "4" chances, your chance is still 1\\25. It is 4 people that have this chance. I do not take into account that with new system you actually have 4\\25 chance to win up to 4 items, as this would be just overretarded). You don't know what you roll for. Everyone can use the item he eventually wins, even for DE\\vendor, anyone is able to "legitimately" need.Which system is supposedly better?
My understanding of the new system is thatyou have a 25 man raid. 25 man raids currently drop 6 pieces of gear per boss. Boss dies and everyone "rolls", but they don't see the rolls. The man behind the curtain handles that. Then 6 people get an item off of that bosses loot table that they can use.. or they may only get gold. You move on.Theoretically they can tweek this so that everyone in the 25 man LFR raid gets something by locking people as they win items. Then one boss drops a 7th piece somewhere along the way for the odd man.That however would make sense, which means Blizzard will never allow it to happen.The one thing we know for certain, is that there will be a new forum thread for every person in LFR that doesn't get something, every time they run it. We can also be pretty certain that people aren't going to have much patience for "random loot is random", not after the year+ long debacle we've just been through.
As for now, LFR drops 4 pieces of loot, as opposed to 10man's 2 drops. I do not raid 25man normals, and the only exception of possible 3rd drop on 10man I know is heroic tokens like in t11 and t12. Since we are still talking about LFR, let's stick to 4 drops.About gold - I do not understand how it works. If you get straight gold instead of loot - it's bs, especially for enchanters. I doubt they would make an epic worth 1kg or so. Probably 25g vendor price. If gold is awarded to people who were out of 4 winner places, it's not much of a topic. If gold is awarded for having all possible drops from this boss(if such tracking will really exist) - this once again suggests rolling no matter what.How I see the MoP system based on interviews and descriptions from comments: a boss dies, every player has (hopefully only) one bar with need or (possible) greed for random item he can use. The rolls happen as if with /roll 25, but hidden. 4 highest rollers get the item.Pros: kid-safe style, you know that you can roll on every boss. No one actually "steals" you loot.Cons: every time you roll with 24 people who "have to" roll.