I think it would be cool if the Pure deeps classes could have one of their specs go Tankish.. At the same time people might loose their favorite spec so it would be a difficult change for people. But we could always use more tanks.
dps on most pve content places but love to be healer in pvp ! lol doenst have to be nothing else to it ;)
No matter what the role model, there is a major fault in reality. Toon too much depends on gear. Once you decide a role on a toon, you need tons of year for farming it. It does not simple as switch between within few second. And it never be accepted by other partner either raid or dungeon wearing inappropriate gear. Like we heard "that tank wearing dps gear", or "that tank wearing green for dun or raid is unacceptable". Furthermore, skill is another problem, but gear dominating almost all in WoW nowaday. No matter how you change it, it still provoke a lot of players. We come here to play the content, but not to relearn the class. Content and the variety way to play are much benefit to player.
If I had to put in my $0.02, I would lean very hard toward the last option. While, yes it is hard to do in a game as mature as WoW, it is not unthinkable. For the pure classes I can easily come up with spec changes that could change their roles:Death KnightChange unholy to be a ranged damage spec. This could be done fairly easily by simply giving them a ranged dump for their blood / unholy runes. Maybe something like:
I enjoy posts like this. Thank you.
I understand spreading the unique buffs out to more people. It was nice when shaman were the only class with bloodlust/heroism, but with the direction going towards 10 man raids and the increasing number of classes, it becomes increasingly difficult to have "one of everything" because we have too many options. Of course that makes a shaman less unique and specifically desireable. They do have a wider variety of specs than a mage so they are still beneficial, but you get my drift. There's good and bad. Each class needs a specific reason to be beneficial without making any so necessary that one is more beneficial than the other. With mages having time warp, we no longer have as much of a problem with "oh crud, no shammy? No hero?" (Which is funny given that alliance didn't have that until BC anyway so you can see how spoiled they've gotten). Honestly the same argument that he makes cross-class for dps can be made cross-class for healing and tanking. It used to be hard to aoe tank as a warrior. I've baffled new players with stories of tanking huge pulls in shattered halls. If you had a warrior tank you insisted on 2 CC classes and you marked every target. Obviously that's not an issue now, but are the class/spec combos too similar to be individually valued? In a 25 man (heck, a 40 man) you just didn't have that issue. You had enough space to include one of almost everything. The issue is being exacerbated by the 10 man trend. I raided in BC for a while as an arms warrior for the raid buff. DPS was high enough tp make it worthwhile, but the buff wasn't so necessary as to screw a raid if you didn't have it. It was nice to have the option for variety. So you can aruge that vanilla had the best makeup, but maybe it was only the best for vanilla. I'd like to see a better mix, but to drop back to the extreme in vanilla wouldn't work in the game as it stands today.as to whether every class should be a hybrid, as someone who plays a hybrid class I know sometimes you only want to dps which is why you pick a mage or a rogue. You don't want to be in the raid and have the RL say "we need you to heal this fight." Some people suck at tanking and healing and should stick to a pure dps class. I'm also totally fine with losing a bit of my own dps in favor of a raid wide buff because I'm intelligent enough to understand that meters don't represent the whole story. Unfortunately there's a lot of idiots raiding right now that are so busy drooling over their own number that they don't stop to think about raid mechanics that they wipe raids and call everyone else a noob for having lower numbers....but that will always be a problem no matter what blizzard does so its not something worth working mechanics around (raid finder, anyone?)
Last option is cool to daydream about, but in practice it wouldn't work as well as one would think, for several reasons.Look at Aion, a game that is all about the role-free final option. I played it quite a while beside WoW, still knock around with it occasionally. Any class can tank most of the encounters because the game's PvE mechanics are downright primitive compared to WoW, and they have to be in order to allow this variance within 'the trinity' of tank/heal/dps. Crit immunity is not a staple to tanking (or even possible) but it doesn't matter because 1shots do not occur in most content. Resurrections can happen in combat, and non-casters can rez each other using store-bought items. There are a few encounters where single target damage is brutal, heavy, and frequent; in these case you bring a Templar (a class that has terrible sustained dps capability but can be set up to take like no damage, PvE Templar is only good for tanking ). If there are lots of adds or AoE threat is a clutch issue, you bring a Gladiator (high dps class that basically needs only to swap out dual swords for a polearm in order to become a tank and use AoE). If neither of these situations are present (and they usually are not), any class is capable of tanking. My cleric occasionally tanks, heals, and dps'es at the same time on some content. There's very little fire to not stand in, and most of the reactionary measures in a given encounter boil down to facing the boss away from the party and occasionally running out of an AoE. This is a boss fight from Aion, pretty solid example of one of the most complicated fights in role-less PvE...which it really isn't complicated at all (tank is a templar to make it even snoozier).There's a lot more subtle and not-so-subtle differences in the PvE flow but to cut the wall of text, what it amounts to is group content design itself being far less intuitive and fun in order to keep this role flexibility possible. It has to be, otherwise it wouldn't work. And once the novelty of tanking with a rogue or warlock wore off, we would be unhappy with very boring and generic content.
Ghostcrawler should have played older raids and see whats it like to tank stuff as older classes (Warlocks for various 'spell damage' stuff and hunters for High King Maulgar). Then he would have a better picture instead of sprouting this textLet not forget the age old art of kiting for UBRS which is like, a requirement for hunters back in vanilla to be accepted to raiding
while I would love the fifth option (but I prefer if assassination remains the melee talents) we all know some of the classes would be very difficult and painful to give three specs without too many changes that won't like everybody. the hardest thing about balancing everything is that we don't just go to raids or dungeons. we also play solo when outside dungeons. for me priests should be a pure healing class, warriors a pure tank class, rogues pure melee class and mages pure distance dps class. the rest are more or less hybrids (the druid being the most evident of them closely followed by paladin)this would work wonders... the more versatile the class is the worse performance it has on each role (so a warrior would be the best tank, a priest the best healer, a rogue the best melee, a druid the most versatile and so on)BUT this has a big problem when soloing. the pure classes would find themselves having a very hard time. the most extreme case being a pure healer. without high enough dps fights become eternal and going solo to level becomes a pain in the ass. but if we give the pure healer and pure tank high enough dps then we need to compensate giving the rest of classes even higher dps and they could even become able to 1 hit kill some mobs making pulls on a dungeon almost worthless. "look... there's a pull there. mage could you please AoE them? nice. one pull less" (sorry. I'm being too extreme just for fun)sure balancing everything is not easy. we have pvp, dungeons, raids, solo missions, hybrid classes, pure classes, melee specs, tank specs, healer specs, caster specs, ... and we all know there's no way to have everybody like any change that on the player's personal opinion is a nerf of his favorite spec or a buff of other specs.it's part of the human nature. I want to be the all powerful wizard of oz while the others are mere mortals so I'm always chosen to do anything I want be it raids, dungeons, pvp or help others do a regular world mission. and we can easily see this. each time blizzard changes a few "core" skills or talents to nerf them because they were too powerful we complain that now our class will be useless and each time blizzard gives a small buff to other classes/talents because they were doing too poorly we complain that now they will be unbeatable. or just look at what people ask from the new talent system for MoP "I wish I could pick two talents from the same tier instead of having to pick one of each since I totally need to pick X and Y to be useful but they are on the same tier" the real meaning of that is "I need those two talents to be a complete unbeatable player but blizzard is being mean and wants others be able to defeat me"I sure hope someday they will find that ideal way of balancing everything. until that day all I can do is work as hard as I can with whatever skills/talents I have and complain like everybody else that my class/spec is nerfed each time they change anything. of course I know that's false but I have the right to be a brat like everybody else.by the way since I play on a pve server one of the stupid things I through once was "why don't they simply alter the abilities so they work differently on pvp places than on pve? I'm a rogue that only plays pve but they nerf me because pvp rogues are too powerful. that's not fair" the problem would be pvp servers where you need a mix of pvp/pve almost always.now if you reached here (you have a lot more patience than me) I'm sorry for the wall of text. I didn't want it either but things rarely go the way we want.
If he'd take a real world POV, he find that having specs that provide "non-mobile artillery" are quite useful in a boss battle (Even the Marines don't go without their Artillery) yet they have dumbed down certain specs simply because they have made a majority of the fights mobile fights. This was probably so they can claim that the spec remains as it was originally designed and they haven't touched it. There are all kinds of ways to reduce the DPS of any spec without touching the spec itself. Granted a sit and shoot is not my idea of a FUN boss fight but the encounters in Cata go over-board on mobility and adds as opposed to a balance between mobility and burn. So much so that certain specs have been made completely useless and unnecessary and other specs made absolutely critical. And this does not take into account the duplicating of buffs such as Mark of the Wild and Blessing of Kings. So much so, again, that it is not far fetched an idea that a 10 man raid could consist of nothing beyond a Healer, a DK and eight Mages. Gearing is another fiasco. This item level stat reads like a mechanic's manual. If you don't have the internationally agreed upon item level, you don't fit. Most PvE players tend to lean toward Stacking their primary stat, mimicking as much as possible what PvP gear does naturally. Mages, Druid casters, ect. . . stack as much Intell on their gear now as they can squeeze in and still get the minimum haste, crit or whatever to deemed necessary to enhance mastery. Not much different than what PvP gear is really. The avoidance of PvE gear vs the crit factor of PvP gear is a matter of debate really. Does avoidance naturally proc more often than receiving critical strike? If you could withstand the base hit of the boss and that boss be unable to land a crit on you which ( in say a case where a boss hit you for 50K normally and could crit you for 100K) would otherwise kill you, would that not make some PvP gear desirable especially since the base stat for the class is already stacked on the PvP gear and some type of mastery enhancer could be gemmed or enchanted? Taking a FUN game (which everybody wants to do when they are not at work or school) and turning it into a game of mathematical theory ( which NOBODY wants to do when they are not at work or school) really makes it seem undesirable. I liked classic WoW, I hated BC and avoid that place even today if I can, I simply loved WotLK, hate Cataclysm, love, hate, love, hate so if the pattern goes as it has been going I suppose I'll love Mists. BTW for you guys thinking that SW:TOR might be a game that could compete with WoW. . . well they have their own class spec and game design problems and are currently facing the same player criticism.
So much so, again, that it is not far fetched an idea that a 10 man raid could consist of nothing beyond a Healer, a DK and eight Mages.I once made fun with my wife and her brother about a raid group that consisted of 25 paladins (since they can be tank/heal/melee and we all know they are a bit overpowered)would that not make some PvP gear desirable especially since the base stat for the class is already stacked on the PvP gear and some type of mastery enhancer could be gemmed or enchanted?I have seen it. even on tanks going full pvp gear on a dungeon. ok. I can understand a melee or a caster. even a healer if I stretch it a bit. but a pvp tank on a pve realm? there's something seriously wrong if that works.Taking a FUN game (which everybody wants to do when they are not at work or school) and turning it into a game of mathematical theory ( which NOBODY wants to do when they are not at work or school) really makes it seem undesirable.extra points because 99% of the players don't bother doing the maths themselves and just google for it. and it's more or less justified because the raid leader will complain if they don't use the gear/enchants/gems/reforge/... that is considered optimal (even if for that player the optimal configuration is another because his style of play)
Model Five – Don’t have multiple DPS rolesSurprisingly, I think this model wouldn't be too bad, but I feel some significant downsizing would have to occur (or give every class multiple roles) in order to fit this model into the current climate of class design. I can't say much more than that because the implications are dangerous and incredible at the same time.(God...I hope this actually made sense)I actually agree in that I like model 5, or at least a small variation of it. I don't mind arms or fury, frost or unholy, affection, or destroy since the play styles are totally different from each other. I do wish however, that every class had in some way, shape, or form, at least one tank OR heal spec. That would give every class the ability to fill at least two roles.
Model Five – Don’t have multiple DPS rolesSurprisingly, I think this model wouldn't be too bad, but I feel some significant downsizing would have to occur (or give every class multiple roles) in order to fit this model into the current climate of class design. I can't say much more than that because the implications are dangerous and incredible at the same time.(God...I hope this actually made sense)I actually agree in that I like model 5, or at least a small variation of it. I don't mind arms or fury, frost or unholy, affection, or destroy since the play styles are totally different from each other. I do wish however, that every class had in some way, shape, or form, at least one tank OR heal spec. That would give every class the ability to fill at least two roles.and then you'd have tons of DPS that suddenly got a tank or heal spec that they'd never use.Why? Because the devs have spent the better part of the past 7 years trying to prolong content by nerfing tanks and healers to the floor. Most people play as DPS because tanking and healing are miserable experiences that just aren't fun. I have *4* toons that can tank or heal (Pally, DK, Shaman, Druid). Total time spent in a tank or heal spec combined on all 4 toons: under 2 hours.More tank and heal specs won't matter until the devs get the idea of "we don't know what else to do, so we're going to clobber tanks and/or healers again" out of their skulls.
Model Five – Don’t have multiple DPS rolesSurprisingly, I think this model wouldn't be too bad, but I feel some significant downsizing would have to occur (or give every class multiple roles) in order to fit this model into the current climate of class design. I can't say much more than that because the implications are dangerous and incredible at the same time.(God...I hope this actually made sense)I actually agree in that I like model 5, or at least a small variation of it. I don't mind arms or fury, frost or unholy, affection, or destroy since the play styles are totally different from each other. I do wish however, that every class had in some way, shape, or form, at least one tank OR heal spec. That would give every class the ability to fill at least two roles.That's what I was thinking too. But there's really a couple issues:1. That would mean a lot, and I mean a LOT of work for Blizzard. I'm not necessarily implying they're lazy, but overhauling so many classes at once in such a dramatic way is actually beyond what an expansion pre-patch accomplishes. Pre-patches DO overhaul classes, but there simply isn't precedence that can imply a mass altercation of talent trees and roles.2. Overhauled design philosophy that is quite a bit different from the current one. I can't begin to outline how much it alters the design philosophy the developers already set down. It would also affect many systems in place that compensate for lack of roles, etc. (Probably an over exaggeration, but it is worth noting).PaladinNo change.Okay. To be honest, I really think Paladins need an AoE Holy Power finisher. =)
and then you'd have tons of DPS that suddenly got a tank or heal spec that they'd never use.This is a valid point. There are many people out there that don't want to tank or heal. When playing a hybrid, many folks end up getting pressured by their guild to fill those roles if the guild is short. So having some pure DPS classes is great for those people since they can not get pressured into roles they do not want to play.Personally, I think Blizz is taking a step in the right direction with the upcoming tank changes. Where you don't really have to worry about threat (probably one of the biggest reasons people don't like to tank - fear of losing aggro and getting yelled at by others because of it), and you focus more on active mitigation.
I would love to have that mount, I think that it is perhaps one of the most impressive looking mounts in the game.
Don't remove or re-role the current trees. Add more specs! They've already set the precedent with 4-spec Druids. Let's add melee Hunter, tank Rogue and whatnot.But don't change the current trees. They have different flavor. Maybe to number crunchers they're just dps, but they have different graphics, sounds, theme, feel. I don't care about minor imbalances, but I do care about having those flavors. Perfect balance is impossible anyway - don't remove the good things because you can't do the impossible.