Magician22773,And there are dozen of variates of tomato sauce. Bigger the variety on supply the bigger chance of satisfaction.With 10million players you will have quite a bit of differend in tastes and desires within the players. Offering them more choices cannot be that bad. Sure there are some elitist who go "The game is ruined!" but there are more who are pleased.Over the years wow has gone more and more "casual", granted. But they have kept the hard part in there aswell. There is just a large variety of difficulty levels in the game. More than the 5 you count.When you factor in the nerfs you get in one tier, you can regard them as difficulty levels. Only the top end guilds down some bosses, they nerf it a bit and that allows another 5-10% guilds to down the boss. They nerf it more allowing yet another bunch of guilds down it. And so on.My opinion on LFR is that it differs from guild runs. Group achievements are usually done in groups, with LFR your chances to see some player again is slim. I hardly regard LFR and normal guild raids as same thing.Now that I think of it I wouldn't cry if the loot from LFR was same level. It would however mess up with the amount of loot you can get in a week. As LFR and normal/heroic raids are on differend lockout.So because of that I would be against it, but I'm sure there is a playerbase who would like that.Let's ask it other way around. Would you do heroics if they gave same loot as normals? I sure hell would, those heroic loot are just flavor (and actually make you able to down the harder heroics).Edit: I do agree 2 months is bit too soon, 3 months before starting this would've been better. However, I do wonder how fast they increase that nerf. If it's 5% a month then I'm totally ok with that. Then again I don't want to do this content for a half a year! Oh the dilemma
This could be the right approach. The Firelands nerf was way too heavy - Not before long, people were even running 6/7 HC public runs which means that it just was TOO easy.
erm isn't heroic mode meant for hardcores?no point in nerfing heroic so that morons- i mean noobs- i mean casuals can progress in it... they got no business in heroic.
You did read the part about being able to turn off the buff of the dragon aspects so the raid can face the challenge at the unerfed level of difficulty didn't you?Yes, we all read it. But it still doesn't make it make any more sense than if we hadn't. You want people to see the content, and explore the lore....you have LFR for that. Nerfing the remaing content, the REAL content, and the only content we have to deal with until FloP comes out is just an insult to every player that has, or would have killed DW on Normal or Heroic difficulty with practice and commitment to the game. Blizz gave us LFR for a faceroll easy way to get tier gear, with a high enough iLvl to make gear a non-issue with the current content. Blizz gave us top iLvl gear for valor points, which are avaliable from everything except cooking it seems, to make gear even less of an obstacle to clear current content. There is no reason anyone...casual to hardcore, guilded or pugger should not be able to see DW fall on an unnerfed normal difficulty before the next expansion. You can practice the fights in LFR, learn most of the mechanics, gear yourself out in every single slot in quality gear....so go down the damn bosses like the rest of us did....all 100% of them. I could see this, maybe, as something to do within a month of the release of FloP, just like they did at the end of BC, to allow new players and the handfull of others that didn't have the entire expansion to kill DW get their kill, but not now. I really feel like this is Blizzard underestimating the ability of their players. And finally, back to the "turn it off" part....you can also choose not to enchant or gem your gear, but everyone does. Why? Because we can. If the buff is there, its going to get used...because its there. If you want people in this game to turn if off, you better make an achievment for doing it, or better gear, or some green text at the top of the gear that says "no nerf"....or there is no one that is going to turn it off.Actually I think the real reason you wont turn off the buff is so you can come to forums like this one and complain about it. So instead of that why dont you just turn it off.
There's a lot of miscommunication in the arguments here. Not to mention some really crappy logic.When people say they want a challenge, and the other people say "you can turn off the buff," I'm tired of seeing this argument go back and forth.I can turn off the buff. But I can't make you turn off the buff too. Except to protest the nerf in the first place and hope Blizzard listens, which is what most people are doing.It's not the challenge people want, so stop saying it is and that they can just turn off the buff. If you're the one saying you want a challenge and you're against the nerf, you're either miscommunicating or stupid since the other people are right, if challenge is what you really want, then yeah, turn off the buff. But most people don't want challenge simply for challenge's sake.It's the reward for the challenge, the accomplishment, that people actually want. And that reward is cheapened if the cost to get it is lessened. And if the reward is what you want then you're shooting yourself in the foot by turning off the buff. You're just making it harder for you to get what you want. Who does that? That's stupid.And if part of the entire appeal of the reward is to get it before others do, then you're REALLY shooting yourself in the foot by making it more 'challenging' for yourself when you know others won't do so.And especially when there's no way you'll ever be able to prove you did it with the buff turned off (unless you do it before the nerf). So if 'bragging rights' is part of the appeal of the reward to you, then you're again screwed.So this bad logic argument of "if you want challenge just turn off the buff" is just another example of how most people's capacity for critical thinking has really gone downhill.
Shame to see this being watered down, especially so soon too.I thought that Blizz had it right with the LFR feature. It allowed the very casual player to see the content and enjoy Raiding, though I'm sure most would agree it's pretty easy to run through now. But that still left Normal mode for those with a little more time available or the dedicated HC Raiders with their Heroic Raids, both of which also came with Achievements and it was good to see that Blizz never gave away Achievements in the LFR version too.As people learn the encounters and gear up in LFR, that in turn makes the Normal Modes easier, which in turn makes Heroic Modes easier... that's just how progression is. Blizz, Nerf it if you really believe that is what people want, but remove the Achievements if the Buff is used. They're Achievements that we earn and not something that you should be giving away. It's a good feeling when you've been working towards gaining these to see them completed; so do not take that reward and feeling away from the slower paced Guilds and Raiders that still put the time and effort into enjoying our Game.The Nerf would cater for those that just want the Loot, but if they want the Achievements then let people earn them.
erm isn't heroic mode meant for hardcores?no point in nerfing heroic so that morons- i mean noobs- i mean casuals can progress in it... they got no business in heroic.Hardcores had no business telling everyone else to "quit" either.I'm ecstatic that DS is getting nerfed already. I just wish it was more, like it started at 50%.It's not enough to get me to come back before Pandaria, but anything that pushes more Raiders out the door is a good thing in my book*.*I know the raiders aren't going to quit, they never do, that's why Blizzard will nerf everything to LFR levels. Raiders will sit there and take it if it's too easy, the rest of us can't cancel fast enough once it gets too hard.
I agree that it is so stupid to nerf so early on because these bosses are just about knowing the tactics in LFR with a few added extras. My guild is only a level 6 guild and we already have 5/8 bosses down so there is no need to nerf just yet maybe in a month or two when a few guilds on each server have completed HCs then ok but now? Why? we are all just enjoying ourselves too much learning how to kill deathwing in normal mode while its still considered "normal".another thing i have noticed is that the guilds getting the achievement "first in realm" for completing the hc raid are all probably going to keep the buff on just so they can brag about getting the achievement when it is now not going to mean anything.
OMG Why are you "nerfing" HC.... whyyyyyy ehhh, Even that you can disable the power of the ascpets...who's gonna do that? It'ss like "Oh guys let's not use flasks and feast today, so it can be more difficult for us" .... im dissapointed
OMG Why are you "nerfing" HC.... whyyyyyy ehhh, Even that you can disable the power of the ascpets...who's gonna do that? It'ss like "Oh guys let's not use flasks and feast today, so it can be more difficult for us" .... im dissapointedThat makes it sound like you want it to be "difficult" for others as opposed to "challenging" for yourself.Pretty common out of the raider set.
My guess is MoP is coming sooner than we all think.
My guess is MoP is coming sooner than we all think.Not sure about that, no artwork, no leaked info, no beta, nothing.I've been plus/minus a week wrong with my guesses for release date so far, which is pretty good going considering how long ago from release I guessed. Soooo I'm going with September 15, 2012.International Red Panda Day...
My guess is MoP is coming sooner than we all think.Not sure about that, no artwork, no leaked info, no beta, nothing.I've been plus/minus a week wrong with my guesses for release date so far, which is pretty good going considering how long ago from release I guessed. Soooo I'm going with September 15, 2012.International Red Panda Day...I dunno, when you look at the veiled hints by Kossak here...http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=199727/patch-4-3-2-will-be-cataclysms-last-according-to-dave-kosak
Why who already killed Deathwing on heroic wants to complain about the nerf? It'll only make your grinding easier.Why who is bashing his head against a boss week after week without killing him wants to complain about the nerf? It may make your raid group kill that boss and keep together through the rest of the content, instead of making the group lose raiders and WoW lose subscriptions.Why who never even tried the Dragon Soul on normal mode wants to complain about the nerf? Ah, those are only internet trolls. Ignore them.
I think this is a decent change for a casual raiding guild that is still struggling to do 10 man together, without having to resort to joining Raid Finder and having 15 extra noobs.It's a good thing that people can turn it off though, I can see where the hardcore raiders would not like this nerf in that they want everything to be tuned to the difficulty they want. In my opinion, Raid Finder should be exclusively for people that don't raid outside of the queue, Normal should be for raiders that simply want to raid together and have fun while having a greater challenge than Raid Finder, and Heroic should be tuned specifically for the hardcore raiders so that they get the rewards they deserve for putting all of their skills to the test.But, isn't that what these three difficulties were (supposed to be) designed for? Doesn't it seem the opposite nowadays, with people on both sides of the difficulty arguments complaining they don't get their way?I don't know, it just sounds like another crapstorm being brewed in Blizzard.
It's amazing how every single predictable nerfbat taken to content is always met with TOO SOON / OMG CATERING TO NOOBS and the like. As if it's something unheard of and folks are truly appalled that it's happening. Again. For the zillionth time.The timing around the FL nerf was a little odd, not worth the stink that got made out of it but I can see why people weren't fond of it. This one though...you can turn the buff off, people! If you think you don't need it, turn it off! If your response is 'well lol why should I bother, noobs won't!'...then you're not the raider you'd like to think you are, and there's little difference between you and the 'noobs' you spoke of.Either way, neither your tears nor your monthly sub matter at all. Sub loss or no, blizz is huge enough to adjust their content however the hell they want to and if folks don't like it and quit, oh well. This is nothing new, not the first content nerf we've seen and won't be the last. And I've been saying this and listening to the tears since Sunwell.
I think sticking a universal buff/debuff is far better than the approach taken in FL at least. It means that the mechanics remain intact to a much greater degree. As to making it easier, whatever. Your achieves are dated if you're actually that concerned about bragging rights.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that SUCKS!ICC Buff was WAY Better.... More Damage, more Fun... But this nerfing bosses -.- Not fun at all!I totally agree.
Just a couple interesting obsevations from the official forums. As expected, there is a pretty huge discussion going on over there....132 pages and growing. Of coures I did not spend the time reading them all, but it looks like, from skimming, to be somewhere around 50/50 for and against, with the same arguements we see here at Wowhead. One thing those of us who are against can "maybe" hope for, is that in the past, with enough official outcry, Blizz has pulled back on a few decisions. I don't know that this would be one of them...but i can hope. But the real tidbit that I picked up on was a "green text" post over there. If you don't visit the official forums, green posts are not quite as official as a blue, but they do tend to contain a little more "insider info" than just a normal post. The post I read mentioned that the buff (nerf) would start at 5%, increase about every month by 5%, and cap at 35%.....so:It seems to me this could be an indicator of a preliminary MoP launch timeframe.....7 months or so. Granted, I think the content is going to be as stale as can be in that time, but it IS better than the November launces we have been seeing with Wrath and Cata. It also seems a bit more realistic than the earlier estimates so have made from Dave's "few" comment. I just can't see Blizz getting MoP ready in 4 months. Sorry, I did not get an exact quote or link for the post, I actually just skimmed over it, and then a few minutes later it kinda "lit the lightbub" in my head, that if this post was right, it gave a good hint on timeframe. All I can say, is its buried somewhere in the 132 pages or posts on the official forums.
People just need to read and re-read the blue posts on the subject. They lay out the logic perfectly. There are a variety of progression rates and progression walls. Blizzard has decided that they don't like telling their players "Well, you got Heroic Morchok down, but that's it. Hope you enjoyed Cataclysm, but your raid has hit its wall. Have a nice day."I really wish people would state their raiding experience and backup their position instead of saying "Oh no, nerfs, too soon." WHY do you have that opinion? If your answer is "I worked hard for my gear, and now three months later someone else can get the same gear with less effort" then I'm sorry, but I don't find that a valid reason. You got to be top of the heap for three months, your guild has solidified it's Rank Score Number on Wowprogress, you have your realm notoriety, your raid was able to overcome the challenges of the raid... you don't get the right to also try and hold this position to the exclusion of others who are working on progression too.My guild is at a wall of sorts right now, at 25 man 2/8H. Working on a boss, we are making progress. Is a 5% nerf in two weeks going to cheapen our experience when we down it? Not really, no. Does it cheapen other peoples accomplishments who killed it a month ago when it was harder? Not really, no.