As a new player, I think the game is anything but stale. But my older brother, who got me interested in WoW in the first place, has been playing mmorpg's since Everquest, and he tends to agree. Every game gets stale after a while, and Blizzard has brought so many environments into the game that there aren't too many fresh and new ideas left to play upon. For me, Lich King was disappointing but Cataclysm has been very enjoyable. The only problem I have with the game really isn't with the game itself, but with the players. The "hardcore" players sometimes make the game less enjoyable because of their negativity whenever something goes wrong in raids or instances. I play as an end-of-the-day relaxer after work. I enjoy dailies and the dungeons and I guess since I'm new to the mmorpg world I'm not jaded like some are. I know I will keep playing for a while because I enjoy it, but some of the players that have been playing since the beginning have gotten bored with it, and I can see why. I'm very excited about the new patch as well as the new dungeons and raids. But the question still remains: What will Blizzard do next? Will it be a let down or bring more people in to Azeroth? I hope for the latter, but games die.
I definitely have to agree. You can't please everyone, but you do have to keep things exciting or people will get bored and leave.
I quit a LONG time ago. Maybe a month after release... it was a long time coming though. It was a combination of a lot of things... and I came back for 60 days.. then quit again. First and foremost... what was fun.. running dungeons and pug raids... was no longer fun for me. It just wasn't and pugs were non-existent. I grew tired of the class changes... I played a Pally.. change after change after change... it got frustrating. Then guild drama, I used to pug everything... simply because I hated guild drama. The pug environment was gone. Everything felt more "grindy" as well.A big one was long 5-mans. 1hr30 minutes plus a queue? for a 5man? No thank you. Just WAY too long. Unacceptable to be sinking that much time into a dungeon. WotLK in the beginning was perfect... 30 minutes was ideal.The community was toxic... I used to frequent the forums.. I simply just stopped. It wasn't worth it.. "What community?" was what I was thinking... The whole "elite vs casual" thing just exhausted me... arguing over and over... they wanted their game back! Noobs had taken over! (I had been playing since vanilla)... "Welfare epics!" and now the ongoing nonsense with transmogrification.... I debated it... I was tired of that too.. people told me I was "self entitled' and "a bad casual" and whatever else... I refused to pay for that kind of environment. Finally the game felt ancient... in terms of mechanics... After having tried Rift, I couldn't go back to Wow... Rift was open and fun... mixing trees, creating new play styles... FINALLY playing a PURE healing class! (all three trees dedicated to heals!) Wow just felt "old" in that respect... The game wasn't flexible in terms of character customization and "builds"...All these little things.. ended up finally convincing me to dump my cash elsewhere.. and with steam it wasn't hard... a long list of great game under 10 bucks? The choice became obvious to me. I needed to cancel my sub, let the "hardcores" have their game back and I can take my money elsewhere... like any service, if it doesn't keep you satisfied then move with your feet. (wallet in this case) and take your business elsewhere.
Nerfs. Dungeons are easier, XP gains are a joke, this game has gotten easier as it has aged. The 'easy' way is a killer for alot of games (Rift Im looking at you too). Shame really I enjoyed the game being difficult, maybe that's just my self-masochistic streak ;)edit - Destroying the talents trees really did it for me too.
For me the changes finally caught up with WoW. I mean with every patch, with every expansion, it's always going to be a bitter-sweet change. Sometimes more bitter or more sweet pending on the player(s) opinion. For me I feel that WoW is now not the game that I thoroughly enjoyed over the many years. Mainly cause don't I enjoy a number of the changes in 4.0+; Spells/Abilities, Talent Trees/Talents, Stats, Profs/Recipes, Keys/Attunement, Instances, and Currencies. Then there's the case that I haven't enjoyed the my beloved Lore, which has been on a downward slope for me since TBC.The way I feel about the people quitting is that it was a two hit process; It started with WotLK and it ended with Cata. It's a huge change cause I went from playing WoW with a dozen of my good pals, now only a few friends play alongside me. I guess if you quit you've adapted or endured. It's obvious I'm the latter, but I hope things get better for me with this game.
IcyFrozen - I read through pages of comments on here, and yours is the only one I agree with 100%. My sentiments exactly! (too long to quote - see page 3)
They're missing what I suspect is the major factor in WoW's subscriber decline -- the crappy economy. There's little they can do to fix that other than actually pay all of us to play, thus freeing up capital for spending on other things, thereby fixing the global economic crisis.It's up to Blizzard to save us all!/talk about shovel-ready
To me, WOW is a complex game and I like it. I have forgotten when I started, all I can remember is that by that time we have to collect and submit war supplies to NPCs to open up a gate to a raid instance in our server. I started on NA servers and changed to Asia Server six year ago. I raid 4 days a week mainly with Pugs and collect all weekly VPs by running LFD heroics. I am now 2/7H and earned my raid Achievements all by raiding with Pugs. I only play pally tank.It goes without saying I have a lots of difficult moments along my path. To name a few, no RL will accept me as Tank when I don't have the right iLvl and achievements, Tanking with a under geared healer, OT by agressive DDers, Nerf to my Pally, etc.I believe parts of challenge and complexity of the game are not how to down H Rag, nor training my fingers to work faster, but to work my way out when I was in bad situations. I have to set realistic goal, plan ahead, understand what resource I have on hand, what else are needed, understand the gap between my current situation and my goal and come up with a tactic to close the gap.I am not quite concern what changes Blizzard is going to make to the game nor what the upcoming 4.3 looks like. The result is that I will be in a new situation and that is a challenge to me. I am confident I have all the skill and knowledge to get out of it if it turns out to be bad. More importantly, this is exactly what make the game interesting to me.Within its life cycle, there were lot of changes in WOW starting from Vanilla then BC, WotLK and up to now, the Cata. However, the major and continue changes are the people in the game. It is so interesting to see how a change in the games unfold different behavior of these people. To me that are contents. I could act differently, meeting different group of people, role playing my behavior, observe the result and find out what works for me. It cost me nothing if I fail while I might have to paid a high cost if I fail the same in real life. I learned a lot from the game and fine tuned my social skill, problem solving skill, planning & management skill, etc. WOW is always new to me as long as there are people and it is full of surprises everyday.In the old days, when I was living in an environment controlled and managed by mommy, daddy, teachers, professors, I always go to them and they will help me out when I ran into problems. For Now, instead of asking someone or Blizzard to change the world to fit me, I change the way I get things done and achieve my goal faster.
Always thought the "lonely world" problem could be solved by one small change - stop xp gain in dungeons. With the lfd feature, you can sit in the q for the dungeon without barely leaving your start zone or can be continually run through with a level 85 guildee pulling the whole instance and one-shotting everything in front of the final boss.Instances for loot only, world quests for experience and leveling.I would agree with this to a point, in dungeon quests are great. I stopped leveling my alt with random dungeons at around 50 cause they got long and boring. up untill then level 15 till 50.. basically go out quest if the queue time took more than 2 mins, other wise sit in trade district standing around with the other 1000 people characters waiting for random to come up. Since restarting to quest i have enjoyed it heaps and do dungeons less and less, I would like the option for reduced XP, if you just want to plow through and get to 85 then you can get 100% xp other wise its a slide bar, say 20% less xp with loot with 10% better stats, or 90% less xp with 45% better stats (10 sta instead of 5) give you less of a need on heirlooms, cause honestly grind a high level through a few dungeons 9k jp's later and your alt never needs gear again. For new players who dont get his luxury having a dungeon/loot bar could help, do i want to get to end game content faster or do i want to enjoy and get better loot.
First off, I'd like to say that i absolutely disagree with the premise that this is an age based issue, I quite enjoyed the first half of wrath thoroughly, from naxx to ulduar honestly, as well as all of TBC, but cataclysm completely broke the cycle for me.I feel as though cataclysm left a lot to be desired, not in breadth of content, god knows there was an incredible amount of new content, but what killed it for me was the implementation.Let's take Vashjir for an example, here we have arguably the most beautiful zone in the entire expansion, a hub for starting cataclysm 80 quests and tons of lore and exciting new quests. I leveled an alt through this excellent adventure zone, and at the end of it all, found a very dull and painful realization to take its place. The zone was empty. The entire vast array of spectacular scenery and canvas from which to draw content upon was now a ghost zone. The only reason people would come here was to farm herbs, it was devastating to watch such an incredible zone go to such waste. Another strong case for the decline is general WoW player burnout, at this point the age of WoW has far and vastly succeeded the developers wildest dreams of keeping it alive from its conception, and a lot of the playerbase have poured so much of themselves into the game that they left nothing for themselves, and eventually became bored with all the bells and whistles that came along with the modified expansion after expansion. Cataclysm had an excellent appeal to it, but that fact that so much of the new content was in rehashed areas or new areas that are seperated by wide marigins of space left a lot of the playerbase clustered into one bland zone after another, i rarely see a steady number of players inside deepholm, or for that matter Uldum, which calls into question how they could have better utilized these areas to draw players in, either through the use of perhaps PvP mechanics, or other repeatable competitions.World PvP at this point for me was at its all time low, with such wide distances between any given zone, and with such ease one could travel from one to another, nobody stayed in one place for a consistent amount of time, save for tol barad. Cataclysm did not have a sectioned off slab of continent from which new content was isolated like the previous two expansions, which scattered population density and limited player interaction greatly, reducing at least the social aspect for myself, and limiting PvP opportunities in the open world. The fact is most people i know on my server sit around Orgrimaar/Stormwind, the main two cities for all the day and wait for their respective ques to pop, Dungeon, BG, arena. The game is programmed to be casual, forgettable, and instantaneous, this is a critical flaw that is in opposition to the very formula for WoW's success.Though many of the updates to the old world were much needed and appreciated, the core end game content was lacking, and a lot of the playerbase saw this and pulled up stakes. Already my once thriving server is dwindling and dying off from the downhill spiral. Dailies and Daily tol barad(poorly made world BG) are not enough to satisfy the players. Perhaps I've come to expect too much from WoW, but this expansion certainly felt to me repetitive, and a repetition that was not welcome, but that quickly got stale due to poor execution.My last point to make, is that with the introduction of increasingly simplified raid encounters, Blizzard has effectively annihilated one of the most important aspects of the game, the thrill of the chase. I never wanted content handed to me, and i aspired to reach content that seemed a challenge to even the most skilled of players. Now Blizzard serves up raids like fast food, and instant gratification is no reward at all. I have no interest in walking into a raid and being showered with purples, it completely disenchants the epic quality that used to attributed with raid content. Accessibility is one thing, but making it the geico standard (so easy a caveman could do it) is the wrong approach. Some people earn their way to be a part of it, and some do not.This expansion has Been a cataclysm to the entire MMORPG, if anything.
What made WoW successful to me was that it was truly the ONLY game that both me and my wife (who is not a gamer by any means) could play together and have loads of fun. When you're past college and work full-time, you can't afford to stay up raiding until 3AM every night to get the shiniest loot from the latest tier. We used to run a 5-man heroic every day back in Wrath just to have fun and we were really good at it (I would tank and she would DPS). The emblem system was pure genius, because we were still able to gear up over time even on a "casual" life schedule.Once Cata launched, all of this charm and accessibility that made Wrath so fun for my wife had practically disappeared overnight. Fun turned to frustration and tedium. Leveling freedom that used to involve 8 cohesive zones in Wrath was cramped down to 5 claustrophobic isolated zones. 5-mans that used to be easy to master turned into frustrating luck and stressful grinding in familiar environments (Blackrock Caverns..., really?) Once most of my RL friends also grew tired of Cata and cancelled their subscriptions, raiding became practically impossible without pugging with either teenagers or hardcore (stay up till 3am every night) groups.At this point, the damage is already done and there seems to be a bitter taste in everyone's mouth to a certain degree. Unless they find a way to re-ignite interest in my wife and friends, this game has no chance for me. I'm sure many, MANY people are going through this same experience.I feel ya, the key word here is ISOLATION, isolation from the playerbase due to easy Cross-server ques that kill server community, and isolation thanks to the awful implementation of the new zones that are drastically seperated from one another. We didn't see this kind of seperation in wrath, nor in TBC, a critical error on Blizzard's part. We need continents and cohesive zones to bound around in, otherwise you seperate players and remove the Massively Multiplayer aspect from an MMORPG.We spend days levleing our characters, meeting new people that we will never see again on our own servers. Blizzard has made the fatal mistake of allowing open access to cross server ques, and completely removing and resonsibility to the individual server itself. The community is dead, we all have to spend time on our own servers, but what does that matter when we can just pop a que and ignore everyone that's around us? It's a cruel joke and it conditions players on any given server to completley ignore each other. An absolutely terrible step to take for what is a game tied deeply in the roots of community interaction.
I was a fan of Vanilla, through and through, though, that was when the game first came out and it was all new and exciting for me. BC came out and I thought that it wasn't all that great and Pre BC was sooo much better. Then Wotlk came out and I quickly realized how much more I should have cherished BC because the game, for me, dropped significantly due to a few reasons:1. Flying mounts. These things ruined the game. It was fine when it was JUST outlands because it limited the use of flying mounts. Now you can fly everywhere, without any need to explore areas. All you need is to find your quest point, stop , drop, and murder, remount and repeat. This dramatically influenced the social aspect to the game. No one needed to explore places by running through mountain passes, and over bridges, all that adventure stuff that's focal for an adventure game with a whole world to explore. It's an extremely pedestrian, window shopping kind of experience. And for the pvp'ers, they have no one to gank, no one to flank, no one to spank, and so on. Your best bet is finding that one lone person either herbing, mining or artifact-ing or who knows maybe even questing. 2. Epic Raids: The thing (for me) that made raids so epic was the amount of players it required to kill bosses and the size of the bosses. Nothing will compare to how fun it was to experience Ragnaros in a 40 man in pre BC. That fight was epic in every way to me. Large devastating elemental guy with lava all around him and lava minions and the amount of time and players it took to bring him down made that fight feel (I use this term lightly) realistic. Even with the change in player requirements in BC, the fights were still epic mostly due to the difficulty of them.3. Dungeon Finder (Game Ruiner): How much more passive can the game get when all you have to do is sit around like a goon and wait for a dungeon, only to blast through a place after grabbing all the quests (conveniently located at the entrance for you) with players you'll never ever see again. This inter-server relationship is so frail and boring and ruins the exploration aspect of the game, like when you had to run to the entrances of dungeons (not fly). It also greatly affects the social aspect of the game because you're almost always going to be with players from other servers and while they may be cool, you'll never see them again unless they transfer or can only join in on dungeons. Long gone, seem to be the days of when there were servers where everyone knew each other on some level, through guilds or being that guy who plays the AH like a boss (I'll never forget that guy Rapscallion who had like every boe epic known in existence pre BC lol). But with this lack of server based social network, there aren't half as many players doing stuff outside of town anymore and if they are, they're generally there for 1-2 seconds for farming. Lastly, 4. Raid Mechanics: I've never been much for end game content but I've noticed a lot of people talking about regurgitated mechanics and such. Why not just shoot for the moon on some new ideas. Like closing walls, or collapsing ceilings, or platforming situations, or something different from the norm. Just go for it . I doubt if Blizzard creates a drastically new type of mechanic that flat out tanks, that it will be the end of WoW as we know it. Take the piss. Also, bring back more tanks. Everything seemed much more heroic when there were like 3 or 4 tanks needed at a time. I bet a lot of what I've said has already been mentioned, so I apologize if anyone already did. I only managed to get to page 3 before wanting to put in my own two cents lol.
I think as for players gettign tired of 5man's, blizz needs to rotate and randomize boss play more. What if the dungeon itself changes. The path from point A to point Z, modifies itself week by week. some bosses stay other get replaced. kinda like that one boss in ZG, but more so the "path " changes like a maze with shifiting walls.There is a lot of content already, but there could be 80 % more hidden content. I think putting hiddeen content that also changes week to week would kmake the game more fun for those that like to do other things then just boring Heroics/ raids. For the causual player uber long quest chains that yield epic rewards (and u can't easily cheat by googling it) would be an amazing thing. Sure eventually after several months.. content might... Might get predictable , if the auto randomize feature wasn't programmed correctly. the whole point of this would be to prevent easy play. My main dislike of cata- is that blizz made it easy! Easy to level, easy to run heroics.... and then the reason people get bored is because its too easy. Easy can be fine, but changes have to be made more often. For people who love this game, probably lvl more then 4 toons, and running the same old crap gets boring quick.as for the end of wow. this current graphics style will probably die sooner then the game itself. I'm sure blizz will find a way to bring it back with better graphics as always.
I can explain why I dislike Cataclysm and have, although many of the posts on the official forums that I participated in where often deleted.To sum it up, Blizzard didn't really try anything new. You can't just refine your formula over and over and expect it to be a success.Exactly. There is absolutely no difference anymore. Everything is the same. Fighting the Lich King or Deathwing - the only difference is the power of the gear. Phasing does nothing but bore me in the end. And the time it takes to play, OMG I can see how people have divorced, it's overwhelming. After many years, I've had enough.
There's plenty of life left in WoW, although rejiggering the S/W would be challenging.I left wow for about 6 months to try RIFT and really liked some of the ideas. Here are two aspects of RIFT that I found really interesting. First, Rifting is very cool. If you don't know what Rifting is, imagine an elite boss and a bunch of minions suddenly spawn in the middle of Dustwallow Marsh and, unless they're stopped, they end up demolishing Theramore Island -- including all all the NPCs. The elites and their minions are level appropriate and reward rep and loot for killing them. Second, RIFT has instituted 1 and 2 man versions of their 5-man dungeons. For unguilded players, or players who just like to solo, these dungeons are really attractive.The point of this post is not necessarily to advocate for RIFTs and 1-2 man dungeons, but to point out that the kinds of features one can build into a game of this sort is hardly exhausted.Cheers,p.s. Just to be complete, After leveling a cleric to 50 (their max), I returned to WoW because, all-in-all, WoW is just a richer gaming experience.
What eventually destroys a game is when players feel they're no longer connected to it, and that changes are too extreme to keep up.There's plenty of talk about "what's new", but it depends on what is new.Cata changed too much, IMO, to the point folks had to not only get used to a new environment, some classes were totally changed, upside down. Then the overall nastiness of the community and the developers (e.g., "Cata is harder, tougher" mindset and smacktalk) caused even more of a rift. When Ghostcrawler posted his blog post that the community dubbed the "l2p", the Wow-census data showed almost the day later the sharp decline of players. This decline was also reported by Activision-Blizzard in an actual decline in subs. The decline continued into Firelands, when Activision-Blizzard again reported more lost subscriptions. It's obvious a whole subset of players are indeed tired of not only massive changes in WoW gameplay, but how Cata did and continues to divide the community into camps.Personally, at this late in the game development the last thing needed was a dividing 180 degree turn expansion, especially after downing the LK. An unity break after a dark chapter would've brought the community together, and fully fill triumphant in the victory. What WoW players got instead was a total revamp of the world and it's destruction. Too much, too fast, and at the wrong time (and it doesn't help to scream, "l2p").
been playing off and on since it was launched, classic was amazing because it had something that other games didn't it had great story and lore most classes had special quest for there class and even after you were done leveling you had tons of stuff to do. i made a new toon last month, having mounts at 20 is nice but having to take out all the epic quests to get 60 mounts because there now level 40 is horrible why in the world didn't you guys just add a 3rd mount for level 20 that was a progression mount. you guys keep taking from the best part of wow witch is 1-60.once i hit 50 i was even more desappointed i really wanted to get a few pieces of dun gear to have for outlands and in my spare time have a 85 run me through all the old dun. get a full set and do that crazy epic quest to upgrade it for transmorg. but you guys removed that too. you guys got to stop removing stuff from classic you don't need to have all 11m players doing the same content you have a good size game why push everyone to 85 and be out of stuff to do, yeah i get that our dun. set is now a jp set but theres no point in that now that t11 is a jp set once again you guys destroyed content when you added more you dont have to destroy content when you add more those pieces of gear the 346 purples should have been in dun you get it while you work through the dun and once you get jp then you can up grade to tier, the way it is now you have 3 pieces of tier and the rest is dun.you guys need to do a better job in future content with class gear and class quests like classic had there was nothing better than getting your guild together to go help the locks or pally go do a epic quest to get there mounts heck i wish ever class had a specialty class mount with a semi epic class quest to do. semi epic meaning no raid needed to get it just duns and special summon mobs.
Blizzard needs to stop changing old areas and make a new continent or even world such as the outlands a big boost would be to make realms where you can play on a specific patch so players with a favorite time in the game can go back.
you don't need to have all 11m players doing the same content you have a good size game why push everyone to 85 and be out of stuff to do, yeah i get that our dun. set is now a jp set but theres no point in that now that t11 is a jp set once again you guys destroyed content when you added more you dont have to destroy content when you add more those pieces of gear the 346 purples should have been in dun you get it while you work through the dun and once you get jp then you can up grade to tier, the way it is now you have 3 pieces of tier and the rest is dun.you guys need to do a better job in future content with class gear and class quests like classic had there was nothing better than getting your guild together to go help the locks or pally go do a epic quest to get there mounts heck i wish ever class had a specialty class mount with a semi epic class quest to do. semi epic meaning no raid needed to get it just duns and special summon mobs.Blizzard really has made an effort to make the only game at max-level. Leveling (once a game in itself) is both trivially easy and far too fast. That exalted reputation was too much of a long-term effort to get? Here, have a tabard, you will be exalted in a few days. Also we don't want you to have to leave one zone to go to another for a chain quest anymore, and heaven forbid you have to get your own flight points.Blizzard is making a game for people that aren't the general type of player who made it so popular in classic and tbc.
My two cents on getting to know your server: I have played on dozens of different servers over the years, and every single one has had the same contingency of trolls, bigots, elitists and $%^&*!@s. On every server people would spam /spit and /lol in PVP, corpse camp lowbies (my first encounter with world PVP was two 60 rogues sitting next to a spider spawn outside of Tarren Mill waiting for lowbie Horde like me), ninja nodes, etc. To this day people who ask for help with issues are told to type /camp or hit alt+f4 and are never given the right answer. As far as I can tell LFD and the expansions since vanilla have only shortened the time it takes to find groups, and anyone who thinks the community was better in vanilla is wearing rose-tinted nostalgia goggles. If anything I prefer the anonymity of cross-server play because it's harder for people to hold a grudge; on a number of servers I currently play on trade chat is full of angry debate about who is the best at PVP and which guild is "so fukkin gay" because they haven't cleared everything yet. We had an opportunity as a community to set the ground rules at vanilla, reporting and /ignoring all trolls so that new players learned right away that to succeed in WoW you need to be a decent human being. We failed, and now there's an option in the "why did you quit" poll after unsubscribing that lists other players' misbehavior as the reason for cancelling your account. That's not a coincidence.