Bgs for honor gear gets stale, running instances gets stale too. Wow needs something more progression based, rather than running/luck based. Old instances keep players running throught them only in the hope that some legendary or a mount will drop... or just for Valor Points. More weird achivements and rewards from them would encourage players a bit more. Say, you want that volcanic stone drake, then you can do this... OR thats... etc, etc. I joined wow a year ago so most of the stuff is new for me, but being 85 means doing mostly Cata stuff and it can get boring sometimes. I'm really enjoying the Argent Tournament quests, and im guessing that was a huge success when it was released, specially with ppl there (im the only one everytime i go there). More tournamentss like that would be interesting.Some more not so combat focused bgs would refresh the pvp experience. Some sort of race using vehicles and bringing in fuel to keep them going, players stealing fuel from the other faction players who are carrying it. More bg rewards tha just honor, for example HK, KB or victory based rewards every week, like mounts, gold, rare mats, enchants, companions, etc.I always wondered if the thousand needles race track (pre-cata) had some sort of use... perhaps a mount racing tournment with some prizes...More pvp in pve zones, like capturing towers as it used to be in Outland, to get special rewards (i.e. New 85 epic gems not only for JC)Anyway, more stuff to do that doesnt burn out so quickly (i.e. I plan to keep getting champion seals for the Argent Tournament Mounts)oh and PLEASE improve drop chances on some stuff... I mean, Zin Roks drop chance is just ridiculous... even now that is becoming obsolete. Maybe improving drop rates as you spend time farming... say 0.001% per troll solve... or per boss fight that doesnt drop a particular mount or something..... that would motivate some players.Just some thoughts. Happy playing.
Lots of people just hate the class changes done over the years...So once again I'd like to bring up the idea of one "vanilla wow" legacy server and one TBC legacy server.
I wonder if some of the reason for the decline isn't the world/NPC-player connection becoming less present? I mean - look at it this way. Wrath was not a perfect expansion by any means. There were some goofy things up in there, and I'm not gonna hesitate to point them out. HOWEVER! When it comes to story and - dare I say it? - RP factors? Holy hannah. Here is this guy who we've known since WCIII, who's been snoozing since the end of TFT after putting on a silly hat. Then one day he wakes up, gathers his harem Death Knights, and goes 'yep, good day to wtfPWN the world, isn't it?' And we're off. Boy, are we ever off. There's zombies in our cities, people turning into zombies, necropoleis overhead--yes, I know this was a repeat of the Naxx-launch event (I wasn't there for that), but it was a damn well-informed repeat and very a propos! Arthas TROLLED AZEROTH, man and he trolled as a means to an end. That's SOMETHING. So right from the start, we have personal involvement, though we didn't know HOW personal it was until we started running around in Northrend and ran into items like the Unliving Choker. Yes, there was a big ol' hint in the expansion preview 'all must serve the one true king' cinematic, but when the spit hit the fan for real it was still a very big '...holy CRAP' moment for me. I knew he'd be in my face; I didn't realize how much so.So, for both meta and in-game fronts, we have a personal connection to Mr Menethil up there. The Shadowmourne quest got you closer still. As the endgame approached, it became clear that the preview video wasn't just a certain ex-paladin blowing hot air. In coming up to Northrend and especially in making Shadowmourne, you were VERY much following in Arthas's footsteps - which he happily reminded you of. In your brains. Often. And not only that, but you had no choice but to do so. If you'll permit me this moment of drama-rama - we got played into the palm of his hand and, once there, we could see the fist closing on us but there wasn't a damn thing we could do. The sense of inevitability was HUGE, in places. What choices do we have? Ignoring him? The Scourge will be on our lawns. Going to fight him? That's what he wants us to do. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...and very literally damned. While the gameplay may have been flawed and while I think Arthas got up to trollan in person a little too much, the atmosphere was very well done. On top of that, the DK class (which I know is flawed, but bear with me) allowed you the opportunity to see things from the other side of the fence and got you even more character development. You got to see how the Scourge worked and why it worked so very, very well. You got to see that Arthas had learned from his errors with the Forsaken and that showed in his approach to the DKs. You got to see his ego in full speed ahead, too. You met NPCs who remained your friends and who continued to show up throughout the experience.A lot was flawed, don't get me wrong. The implementation of phasing drove me halfway insane, and there were bugs, and there was the Derp Knight phenomenon, and the weird gear gap, and so on, and so on. ICC was quite empty; it felt unfinished on the inside, as compared to the Black Temple which was full of signs of life and looked occupied. Yeah, the Scourge is a war machine with many cogs and one big wheel only, but still. And I still don't understand why, from a story perspective the Argent Crusade had its tourneys where it did (in Anub'arak's front yard, WTF). I know why from a gameplay standpoint. The place they planned to put it would not have worked. But it still makes Tirion seem kind of duhh. Also, this was where Varian and Garrosh got really annoying. I kept wanting to Falcon Punch them. So, yeah. Not a perfect expansion by any means, but when it came to personal involvement? Dang. Wrath could have been very bad; what saved it in part was that it reiterated the fact that people had a personal connection to Arthas. It took advantage of that connection and expanded on it. WE basically guided him down the road to Lich-King-dom. The echoes of that fall were all the hell over vanilla!Azeroth. The Plaguelands, Undercity, the Forsaken faction itself--and when the Blood Elves showed up in TBC, there was ANOTHER reminder. Cutting right through your starting zone like an ugly skidmark, the Dead Scar. And when TBC decided Illidan was cray-cray, what event was said to have tipped him over the edge? What drove Kael into Outland in the first place? LOL EVERYTHING IS ARTHAS'S FAULT *cough* All tomfoolery aside, and at the risk of sounding like a total dim bulb of a fanboy--Wrath set out to get us personally involved, and it succeeded. This is in part because WCIII is such a ridiculously good game so Blizzard was able to use that as a trampoline. WCIII was the game that got huge. People still build DIY expansions and stuff for it. WCIII was many people's door into Azeroth. And Wrath was what ended the story that began there. And you - yeah, you, your PC, your dude - were one of the crew who closed that book. You almost got your own book slammed on your head in the process, too. (So, SO many bad-end fanfics I have in mind, still.) I think Blizzard's having a very hard time topping that. They tried, and in some ways succeeded. A lot of the new quests are fun as hell, Vashj'ir is lovely, the Twilight twerps have some really nice villain architecture, and it's fun to stand in the fire, but...here's the thing. Deathwing is not particularly concerned with us. He's a natural disaster with a bad attitude and a tendency to speech. He LOOKS damn cool, and he terraformed the crap out of Azeroth, which my lord did some places need it. He brought much-needed change, and cool things, but as a character? I'mmmmmmmm just not feelin' it. Sure, he can make me extra tasty crispy, but he doesn't care who he does that to. There are few hints of any kind of personal investment in anything that we've seen from him; the one that comes to mind is his clawing up Stormwind for having his kid's head on a figurative pike on the gates (way to go, Varian). tl;dr Arthas cared about us (inasmuch as he wanted us to be the most awesome undead army ever, not in a warm fuzzy way), Deathwing couldn't give half a crap.So there's this sense of distance again, of the player characters just being kind of along for the ride. And in some ways, that's GOOD, like, we are not the big kahunae here... but in others, not so great. I didn't mind Tirion being all Big Damn Hero. That was building up from his quest lines in vanilla. And again--his son dying is indirectly Big A's fault, because Scarlet Crusade, and then there's the Mograines, and so on...yeah. A big chapter in Warcraft's story ended with Wrath. It feels sometimes as if we're left with a handful of loose ends.You take the good with the bad, and Wrath had its ups and downs as Cata does. At the end of the day, though, when it comes to personal involvement, Wrath spanks Cata into the ground, and I think that disconnection and distance might be a big reason why Cata feels schmeh. Wrath made me feel like a n00b again. I think, maybe, that's what people want to some extent? To have the fun they did as a n00b, to have that sense of wonder and that personal involvement. I probably sound like a major navel-gazer here and like I'm wearing several pairs of rose-tinted glasses, but them's my two cents.
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer Cata over WoLK. I'm not much on Lore and I'm not a hard core raider but I play the game practically everyday. I did enjoy the new 5-mans in WoLK(patch) and I'm loving the Troll's but there is a big difference in game play in my opinion. In particular the use of CC. CC was practically non-existent in WoLK and when Cata came out you we forced to use CC. The Trolls are a nice mix between easy 5 man heroics and almost raid level content. Given, once T12 hit, these became easier however there still needs to be more awareness than in WoLK.Personally, I think Blizzard has done a good job in pushing content(sometimes I think its to much to soon) and keeping things moving a one direction or the other. I think people forget at times that its a game... I still play Starcraft! Why? Because it was and is fun! If you want continuous change in your life, step away from the keyboard and mouse, get married and have kids! Wait, I did that... I now play WoW with my son. Why? For fun! We get satisfaction out of killing stuff and accomplishing things together. When I get bored with one toon, I play another. When I want a change in scenery, I jump on my horde toon(s). When I get bored with the game, I step away for a while and do something else.I have several friends that all try different games, Rift, Conan, EVE, and yet we all find ourselves back in Azeroth at one point in time. Will the game ever die? I really don't know. If it does, I will find something else to absorb my time.
Hear, Hear! I whole heartedly agree. I can remember the first time I walked into Mo'Grosh, and was like WTF, this ain't happening by myself. When each day was an experience, both visually and in game strategy. Guilds helped each other level, boy was I proud of that first mount. The guild all contributed to what would be now called a "Banker Toon" who bought every member a mount when they had reached the level.Now everyone is in a hurry to "get 'er done", literally running through dungeons to the main boss, or to where the loot drop is they are after. It used to be a sin to drop out on an instance. I can't tell you how many time I've been the last one, because the tank bailed, or I've got to bed. Horse hockey, pure horse hockey. I have been a Blizzard fan since the first WoW, DOS based. (OMG I am getting old and proud of it) My 5-man is me and my grandkids. Between us we mange over 40 toons on 5 doffermt realms, and yes we have both Hordies and Alliance. In my opinion one of the things that started a decline was when some parents (not all), found what a wonderful time-sink it was so they wouldn't have to raise their children. The beggin for gold, the constant juvenile chatter on the trade chatter.But you know what, I still love it, I look forward to Blizzards next step in MMORPG. With what they've learned from this, it's got to be a killer when it happens
For individual players it has meant -assuming you are one of those players who does possess some degree of skill and has a standing spot in a raid group - that you must raid only with your guild, and you must now work even harder to schedule your life around raid nights. Gone are the days where guilds that are not world ranked can have plenty of capable backup raiders available to fill in when Joe Warlock can't raid because it's his kids' back-to-school night or whatever. WoW is now more than ever a game of haves and have-nots. Yes, it is possible to gain some gear (albeit very slowly) through the VP system. Unfortunately, experience is a lot harder to come by. So players are now either experienced guild raiders or they haven't seen anything beyond maybe the first boss of the current tier that they attempted in a "trash run" with a PUG of other non-raiders.I totally agree with this.
The problem is keeping the novelty of the game exciting.Vanilla was the starting point. The game was new, fresh, exciting. 40 players in a single raid is something of legend. Expectations were high of the expansions since the game had a frame of reference to work from considering 100% of the population enjoyed vanilla.BC had Illidan and the gothic experience of outlands. One of my favorite environments ever developed by Blizz. BC also had alot of gear ranks. ie; When you saw someone in full epics, you were mesmerized. Someone who wished to raid in BT, wouldve had to work his way up from Kara or SSC. Challenge is always a good way to attract a fan base. 90% of the wow community enjoyed the first expansion.WOTLK had the long awaited Lich King. Need i say more? Warcraft nerds have been waiting for this moment for a long long long time. Although heroics and raids weren't as challenging as the previous games, raids like Ulduar and ICC had a certain degree of challenge to keep people intrigued. And the whole map of Northrend, flawless environment graphics, areas like Howling fjords steep cliffs and storm peaks titanic structure were more than enough to keep the new players streaming in and retaining the old players. 75% of the community enjoyed ICC (and since cata i'm sure more people look back thinking, "it wasn't so bad in retrospect")Cataclysm, Deathwing, Who is he? Whats so special? The shattering; interesting that they changed up the usual scenery, the novelty wore off fairly quick though, no more kiting Overlord Mok'Morokk to Orgrimmar, several other changes like flying mounts in citys, the incredible increase of stamina, the reappearance of Onyxia 3.0. Did we really need those things? Heroics being challenging is great, if you run with competent players, while pugs became excruciatingly difficult with a tank or healer whos 'new'. Heroics being a prerequisite to raids should be difficult, but should still appeal to 50% of the community with below average intelligence. Although, as hunter, its nice not worrying about being mana burned in 3's, but having balanced classes is usually something we have to wait till the end of an expansion for, (ask any warlock about this) and at the moment, the only thing which keeps people playing cata is Arena, and the hope it will all be over soon. After Vanilla, expectations were going to be high, BC met them head on, WOTLK embraced the challenge but allowed for new players to also experience a key event in the lore of the game. Understandable. Cataclysm was a dissapointment but there will always be new players, and die-hards, but alot of the skilled players lost the initial appeal the game had, and it is a difficult task for blizzard to keep up with our demand for greatness, my opinion; stem off with a new lore. Fresh ideas. Talk with the consumers and seek out advice from the veterans. P.S.We hate Hellscream, give us back Thrall.
the old wow bunch is just getting older, getting jobs, moving on. it's time to build a new following. I vote for wow2.
"I also miss being able to jump in a 10 man with a guild that is perhaps less skilled that ours every once in a while and helping them topple a boss they were struggling with. I saw that all the time in Wrath; these days it NEVER happens."^This! This! This!^ My guild is very casual. We ran instances for fun and dabled in raids. The key word...fun. We are very small and to do more, learn more, grow more, we joined with another guild in forming a 'sister' guild relationship. We 'borrowed' from each others toon pool, ran instances together, learned from each other and had a ball doing it. Now, that has all changed.With Cata, the growth of the guild has all but ceased. When it comes to recruiting..the first thing out of every person's mouth I hear when responding to LFGuild..is, 'What level are you?' Not what is your style, what are you about, do you raid, casual..anything. I respond with a sigh and a we are a really great level 11 guild..only to be followed up with silence or, no, thanks, looking for a high level guild or, just got invited to a level 20 guild.I love a lot about Cata and it brought some great things with it however some things, I really hate and think it destroyed a certain 'player style' if you will. I miss the glory of Dal and would love to see it shine againI don't plan on leaving WOW, not just because over-all I was disappointed in the content of Cata, nope, I love the game, the friends, the lore, the hope of the next big expansion...nope, I plan on being the last one and I'll leave the light on for you!
This is what I noticed. And I asked my friends why they stopped playing.Number 1 (the most qq) was about WOW is recycled. We got Naxx, then Naxx 2.0 in wrath...and then Onyxia at lvl 60, then 80...then rezzed as a zombie at 85....Same with ZA and ZG. So basically it's recycled recycled and more recycling of instances. How about some new 5 mans? Wrath was full chalk of them! None of that recycled stuff. And no I personally don't think it's cuz the game is getting old...it's just the old content is uh new contend? Oh dear.Number 2. PVP in PVE!Yeah...it's horrible. Why not keep PVP out of PVE? No ilvl on PVP gear so they can't get into PVE?I know that a lot of player can dish out the heals/dps when they're in PVP gear...but tanks in PVP....in ZA/ZG trying to pull w/out CC's....yeah uh...who cares if ur in all season 10 PVP gear! You have NO mit...and we can't kick you cuz we "can't initiate anymore party kicks...." the healer has the right to qq...qq heals qq! I'll qq right a long with you!Number 3. Which brings me to....Vote to kick (yeah I was surprised too...not really)While the intentions were good...ultimately with the vote to kick timer and not limits on kicks per encounter got my dpsing friends aggravated. For instance, can't kick when in combat...we had, on several occasions, people pull....and keep pulling and wouldn't stop...and we couldn't kick them. Or people just SIT there and do nothing...but we couldn't kick them cuz of the timer, or "can't initiate anymore party kicks". Or if somebody dc's they have a deserter timer....Number 5. Can't be changed but, people being (pardon my language) $%^&*! bags!I think personally it should be #1The longer people have played this game the more the people expect everybody to be an "elitist" and know what to do. For instance, my first ZA I had no idea what to do. I got into an argument with the heals that I should read up on it...and that they didn't have time explaining the mechanics to the boss fights to me...I can understand if you come in w/out gems or in greens in h za you'll be stared at....but why do people need to bring others down. Geezuz. People are getting more and more ruder in the game...In fact, it has gotten so bad that when I made a comment that Paragon wastes time and plays too much (even tho I play wow) that's why they get world firsts...I got A LOT of insults, threats, even death threats. I'm entitled to my opinion.....but death threats...in no OTHER game has this happened to me in. People need to understand that there will ALWAYS be noobs. Deal with it. And help them out a bit, yes?I don't know if this helps or not, but cheers.
I <3 me some WoW but these are 3 things I would like to see change :1) I'm in a small guild and prefer it that way. It would be nice if guild rep and leveling was scaled for those of us who want to keep it pvp/casual and on the smaller side of things. Some of us guild masters just don't have the time to deal with lots of people. Some of us want to keep our guilds unique and only invite people we know personally. it would be nice to advance like the guilds with 100+ people do. Why is it such a bad thing that solo players and smaller guilds want to maintain play style without having cave in and joining a bigger guild to progress? i know its an mmo but everyone has a preferred play style. After all, we pay our subs too lol. 2) Conquest battlegrounds are a nightmare to find a group for on my realm and frankly i don't have the cash for a realm xfer. why not add a way to where those of us who want to upgrade our pvp gear can queue up on our own for conquest bgs just like we can for regular and heroic dungeons and even coming soon raids. i want conquest pvp gear and not have to wait 2 hours to pre make a darned group. We can't even cross realm queue for any regular bgs as it is. 3)Class balance. Not everyone wants to roll a mage. That's my top 3. If at least 2 of the 3 don't change this will possibly be another retired WoW subscriber.
One of the problems is, to sum it up in one word, gear.Gear has been severely vamped up stat wise since vanilla. In vanilla there wasn't a HUGE stat diffrence between Greens and Blues, same for Blues and Purples, and you could get away with maybee having a Green or a piece of gear that was from a few levels back and could still participate in the lower teir raids and dungeons. Now however it seems the entire raid group is brought down if one person still has a rare, even if everyone does know the fight. It seems to me that its more about, "Come back to this boss once we have better gear." Rather than "We will come back later so we can try to beat the bosses mechanics." That goes with another thing, "Enrage" mechanics. Shouldn't a group be allowed to take as much time as they need to kill a boss? Shouldn't a group be more focused to working together to beat difficult mechanics rather than worrying about not having the stats to beat a boss?In my opinion, focus less on the numbers, and focus more on the mechanics.It's not the end-all-be-all, but I think it is a factor.
Actually, Barret, Enrage mechanics have been part of the game since Vanilla. Soft Enrages, such as Vaelastrasz the Corrupt, and Hard Enrages, such as Patchwerk, have existed in most if not all Raid Instances ever to be implemented. And regarding the gear part - that generally began with the introduction of GearScore. People began to think (or maybe they just wanted to be !@#$%es, what do I know) that GearScore was a valid measure of skill, and that a certain level was required to beat a boss. This is not, and was never, the case - but it remains in form of "Min 365 iLvl PLZ" today. Mostly only in PuGs, though - most guilds know that people with inferior gear can still perform.
Blizzard isn't stupid enough to let a game as good as this die. If they take on the role to create a new MMORPG like wow but with far more features and complexity for advanced players it would be a big success. imo of course.
Not really in the mood to read 12 pages of wall of text so this might've been said. But to me, WoW has lost it's 'magic'. Think about this for a second: WoTLK marked the end of a time when the story was set in stone, following Illidan and Arthas as we did in Warcraft 3 and The Frozen Throne (expansion). With all that coming to an end with the fall of the Lich King, the game no longer has something to lean on in terms of storytelling. First of all, that alone is bad for players like me, because Illidan and Arthas has always been a part of the Warcraft universe since I started playing. You might say I've attached feelings to them. So for them to make way for new characters is pretty much like a lead role getting replaced on your favorite show.Now, it might not have been so bad if the new developers, producers and writers had given us new characters that we could care about. But to me, Deathwing is just a big stupid Dragon that needs a beating. There's no involvement or dedication from my part that makes me care about him in some way, like with the previous expansions. To put it frankly, I don't think the new writers have what it takes, I think they've started caring more about money than making a great game. And with all this talk of "epic experience" and whatnot, I gotta say it doesn't work that way if you don't have an equally epic story to back it up. I'm not saying this is the universal truth, it's just my two cents that explains how I feel about the game. So for now I'll stay put while I swing some lightsabers and see if BioWare have what it takes to make a great MMO :)
I think the biggest issue I had with Cata is that it isn't *finished*! They did a lot of wonderful work on it, but it's outshined by the zones that are utterly untouched (*coughArathiHighlandscough* and the unevenness of the storytelling (*coughUldumcough*).
Reworking/re-introducing ZA and ZG was ok, but people have been there, they remember what they were like the first time they went through. Then it turned out to be just a little different so people had no problems with it... I started playing at the end of 2006 just as TBC was coming out and becoming big. It was great because I knew nothing about the game or any of the maps I was seeing it all for the first time and it was good! After I rolled up a few toons to max level the quests became second nature, I knew I had to go gather <place item name here> from the other side of the map and run it all the way back, just to turn it in and then go all the way back to kill the boss in that SAME area (which correct me if I'm wrong but, you've already killed that guy once or twice before getting the quest to do so.) That got really old, really fast. I can't tell you how many times I screamed at my computer, "I ALREADY KILLED HIM 4 TIMES, GIVE ME THE LOOT JACK!" Then when they changed the way people got PUG's together for randoms, people seemed to only want to kill the main boss and requeue, missing at least half of the content that the developers worked so hard to implement into the game. People are simply tired of seeing gold farmers spamming in Trade Channel and getting their accounts hacked. It really sucks when people were trying (for example) to get the Bronze Drake from the Heroic Culling of Stratholme and the tank "didn't feel like" killing the extra boss so that you could acquire it. Now, I do enjoy the "Easter Eggs" that are implemented into the game, such as the Harrison Jones quests in Uldum, I found that to be pretty entertaining while they lasted, also the fact that when you are out questing and you run across a rare spawn, it's great to see what will drop, regardless of if you can use it or not. All in all, I think that Blizzard could keep WoW running and interesting for years to come, but they would have to do one thing... Listen to the people who play the game and implement changes that need to take place.
In reference to age vs. game mechanics, Earth and Beyond stayed online several years and then it was sunset. WoW came out the next month and i just Kept playing as if it were EnB. Both games have the same default settings, graphics engine and concept. I would even say that either the gamed paved the way, or WoW closed them to launch WoW and catch the the subscribers. There are obviously other areas that affect the longevity of a game, but EnB's scenes that graphics were almost identical. With that rolled in, that's ~10 years from graphics to only improve slightly.If Blizzard makes another MMO I'm sure it will be a followup or "later" in time. The big question is how to make the game look different but also keep the slight cartoon look. The cartoon look is great for spells etc. I just can't see people flocking to play an MMO that is a resource hog and only "gamers can run it"Blizz is playing it safe by keeps the graphics etc. underscored to bring a wider audience. With hardware being so far ahead of software, its hard to even guess where the MMO blob of WoW will go. Its going to be interesting to see. It's tough to see a game that you have put so much time into just go "poof" and disappears. EnB was like that. But they didn't have the name "Blizzard".If you ever want to see how similar they are just google some picks.....<GoC> R.I.P