I am going to tank on my pally now even though I have no experience in tanking in cata. If the groups wipes coz I am a bad tank I will simply tell them blizzard made me do it coz they are only giving tanks the goodie bags. Too bad other people will have to pay for my mistake coz of blizzard smart way to fix things. Want to blame someone blame blizzard.Here's the specific post I was mentioning, but I certainly got this impression from a few other posts in this thread as well. It's a horribly misguided approach, imho.
^^ While I haven't tank in Cata I did tank in Warth through out the expansion even up to 25man heoric LK so I do have some knowledge of tanking but overall the new boss mechanics I wouldn't be able to handle it as well as ICC. I just tank a regular for a guildie today. While no wipe I knew I wasn't doing everything perfect. Some pulls would have wipe the group if it was in heroic. Umm both me and healer were in pretty god gear so it was OK (healer being a guildie as well). I hold aggro well but some stuff neeeds to be incurpet wasn't and some pulls were just coz we were over gear it didn't matter if we use CC or not.
I see this happening
That has been linked before lol.
I am going to tank on my pally now even though I have no experience in tanking in cata. If the groups wipes coz I am a bad tank I will simply tell them blizzard made me do it coz they are only giving tanks the goodie bags. Too bad other people will have to pay for my mistake coz of blizzard smart way to fix things. Want to blame someone blame blizzard.Here's the specific post I was mentioning, but I certainly got this impression from a few other posts in this thread as well. It's a horribly misguided approach, imho.The drop rates in these bags will be the same was the drop rates for the original mount.. which means in most cases you will have to tank 100 heroics to get a drop. I don´t care how tough these fakers are talking on the forums, if you are a bad tank, and you are wiping and having healers quit.. you are just not going to keep doing it long enough to get these mounts.Two things are going to happen.1. Some DPS are going to try tanking. Some will find that ´wow, this isn´t as hard as people say it is´and they will easily transition into being decent tanks for heroics. Others, like the ones who already admit they are bad tanks, will probably try it for a few runs. They may actually successfully complete a few heroics along with many failures, but when their few successes does not earn them a mount or rare drop, they will probably stop trying.2. Guild tanks and other tanks will queue for more than just the minimum they were doing before. Some guild tanks will actually run with full pug groups, something they never had to do before for VP.The people on this forum talking about being bad tanks and just failing their way to the mounts is forum-crap.. nobody is going to queue for 200 heroics, succeed on 100 just for a mount. They are simply much easier to get by grinding them the old way.
That has been linked before lol.But it's hilarious enough to get a couple more links out of it.
The intentions behind the call to arms and rewards are good but the result is going to be nothng short of disaster. If Blizz truly cared about players the benefit of a tank (or anyone) answering the call to arms would be to everyone in the group. That would make groups more willing to accept the endless slew of fail tanks that are about to flood the dungeon finder cue.Fix the tank issues and we will have more tanks. Since cata came out Druids tanks (that do not fail hard) have becomes almost entirely extinct. Thier ability to tank reduced to the point of making them unsuitable for that role. Any druid tank I have run with has had threat and survivability issues. Fix the bear and we get one tank class back that we don't have now.Note to Blizzard: Please fix the problem don't insult us with a shiny carrot meant to distract us from the real problem. Be prepared for a lot of really pissed off players come 4.1
I honestly would love to be able to designate another of my toons for the vp from a random heroic, if I go on a tank. Can that be the CtA reward? "If you pug at least one dps, you can move one heroic's worth of vp a day to a non CtA class." I have a fairly well geared healer it's dead-boring to random on half the time, but I keep running them on him because I still want a vp item or two. If I could tank on my bear twice and have the bear get the vp once and the healer get it the second time, I would. Since we're making things BoA... On the other hand, I couldn't care less about mounts and pets. Totally not worth running with 0 friends for that. And I wouldn't run with 0 friends for ... anything really. I almost always pug at least one dps, but what's the point of the game if I don't run with my friends? I've heard this a lot. I think "2. Guild tanks and other tanks will queue for more than just the minimum they were doing before." is going to be a _very_ small group of people."Since cata came out Druids tanks (that do not fail hard) have becomes almost entirely extinct." I guess I'm lucky, I see bears pretty often at max level. Not _all the time_, I'd say dks are still the most common tank class, but it's a lot closer margin than it was in Wrath. I probably see 3 dks to 2 warriors, 2 pallies and 1 bear. Bears are (rightly) the least common tank up 'til 81, but 4.1 will fix that, I think. And I do OK on my bear. I mean, I can't sleep through trash like I do on my dk ... but having to look at the threat meter once or twice a trash pack isn't _that_ hard.*edit* And yes, the worst 85-heroic experience I had was with a bear, but that was one outlier. Most bears are no worse than average. I'd say dks still have the highest concentration of just plain bad players, but that's all anecdotal.
LOL Stop saying healers might get a chance at the goodie bag too. Is only for Tanks. Any healers out there have instant ques? I sure don't MY Que time is usually around 10mins or so. So really this only reward tanks and TANKS only. No one else. Free your mind young Padawan. Imagine what will happen when all the Tanks start Queueing to get the bags. It is entirely possible that Healers will start becoming the rare breed. In fact, I can also see a day when DPS will get it. I see this really balancing out the roles over time.Cheers.THe only thing that will assuredly balance out the roles is if we have a 10/10/10 talent tree spread between Tanking/Healing/Damage.And that will never happen.
As a person with a level 49 Druid with full heirlooms to tank or heal, this is exciting news.
lol just log on for 10mins check the random heroic and no role is activated for call to arms. From now on I am only queing when Call to arms is active.
Makes Me Happy.You have done the best job you can.So just ignore the cry babies.And BUFF those dungeons make Tanks work for Aggro and Devour that mana,make em rewrite macros and give em something to really cry about.It just gives you more time to hit em with an even Harder more exciting patch that will have em speechless in awe at your Teams prowess and abilities.You are Epic as well as this new patch.Build a new expansion for these guys to revel in your AWESOMENESS.GRATS Blizz.
Wowsers.... I left WoW several months ago to try my hand at Rift. Now that I've maxed out my toons there, I find myself longing for a little Warcraft. So I am reading the patch updates and came across this thread. Ack! This is the drama that your momma was talking about. You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time....Seriously, while I think this is a decent 'band-aid' that will ease the pain over the short-term...Blizz needs a more perma-solution....and here is one place where Rift got it right. (for the most part) EVERY class has a tank &/or heal spec. Just like everything MMO-related, there are some classes that are better tanks than others...and some that are better healers that others. Usually it is more situational, not a blanket thing, but you get my point.The solution is to give the DPS classes some tank specs. THAT would introduce some newness to the game and introduce a lot more tanks to the queues. Now I'm not going to argue the validity of a warlock tank, however, I can say that in Rift, my first T-1 expert (heroic) dungeon had a rogue tank. I was healing so I got to see rogue tanking at a micro level. He was dodging and evading most everything. When he did get hit, it was BIG, but not a 1-hit, so it took a slightly different healing style than a warrior mitigating damage.Anyway, not gonna linger on that... but let's face it, if you break down WoW roles into the specs, you have 4 tank specs, 4 healing specs and 22 DPS specs. so gee, almost 6-to-1 ratio of DPS to tank / DPS to heals. So the problem comes in when every dungeon party needs 1/5th tank, 1/5th heals and 3/5ths DPS. If there were only one person of each role logged on, only half of the DPSers are getting into a dungeon the first queue....the rest are waiting...30-45 minutes (the approx time to complete a dungeon...gee sound familiar?)So the solution is NOT to get the tank specs to queue twice as much, which is what this band-aid is geared to do. The solution is to have 3x the tanks and 3x the healers than we currently have. You aren't gonna get more people to roll warriors, pallys, dks or druids...however if you created a tank role for, say, rogue, hunter and/or shaman, then we would have more tank specs => more tanks in queue => closer ratio of tank specs to DPS specs. Now I wont go into my ideas for implementing this...I'll leave that to the experts. But I will say that when you have an imbalance of skills that are necessary for the success of all, you don't ask the people with the skill in which there is a shortage to work harder (they'd have to queue more than they currently do), be it with or without a reward. What you do is bring in more people with the skills that are lacking. MORE TANKS & HEALERS....and all the people said, "Amen".
It's not that they don't have enough tank/heal specs, it's that people don't want to tank or heal. It's a high stress position where you need to know exactly how to play and what's going on in a dungeon.
While I am no expert on the population/spec breakdown of actual players (couldnt we determine this via the armory?), I respectfully disagree. assuming that all classes have an even distribution and all end-game players have a dual-spec chosen with one of them being tank/heals every time its available, then the ratio is slightly better than 6-to-1. 4 tank, 4 heals, 22 dps specs are available. Again, assuming that every person who has a tank/heal spec available has chosen to build it, not counting the fact that pally's tank/heals compete, so all Pallys would have to have both tankand heal specs for this to work (or the odds get worse), it is 6 dps specs for every tank spec and 6 dps specs for every heals spec. (not 3-1 because you don't need either tank or heals, you need both).So while I agree with your statement that people don't want to tank/heal (although I love it and its all I did before I left), I disagree with out that there are plenty of tank/heal specs, or that it isn't the problem.I believe that not having enough specs for the roles is the main issue and the fact that the few we have "don't want to tank or heal" only serves to compound the problem.For the record: I have one of every class, and I love them equally for their own skills. However, my main is a Pally prot/holy and I consider myself quite good at it. while I admit tanking is hard work, I am the type of person (and I think most successful tanks/heals are) that enjoys the feeling of success at a hard job well done enough to put in the 'extra' work.I play my main more than the others for many reasons...and the 45 minute queue times for DPS is a big one.Give currently pure DPS roles the chance to spec as a tank or heals and I think you will find that the queue times will shorten for everyone.
Give currently pure DPS roles the chance to spec as a tank or heals and I think you will find that the queue times will shorten for everyone.And you'll have that many more 'bad' tanks/heals, such as the one I was up against last night: Paladin tank, in gear that had that was meant for healing and agility items.....or the DPS plate who roll on the gear that my enhance shaman needs, such as trinkets and rings with agility on them.
(sorry for seemingly spamming messages here, but 8 pages of posts are a lot to think about and this is a seperate issue)I also wanted to comment on the "Drop-Rate" discussion.I'm not sure why people are screaming "unfair!" at the whole rare mount/pet stuff.A drop rate of .01% is like winning the lottery (ok on a very scaled down level). What everyone here is whining about is that tanks and possibly healers get to buy twice as many lottery tickets?Its still the lottery folks. Very rarely will an individual tank win.Also worth noting: (I think someone else said this too)If a tank is busy running instances (lets say average 45 minutes to do each one), well that is time that they aren't farming that certain special mount/pet/whatever.So every 'lottery ticket' a tank gets for running an instance (we've all agreed hard work), you could be out there farming Strat or whatever has the thing you want. Last time I checked, none of the work involved in farming the stuff that drops in this sack tankes longer to get 1 chance at a drop than 45 minutes or so. Therefore while tanks/heals might have an alternative method of getting the lottery ticket, I think any difference in 'winning' the lottery is negligible...and worse, they could get a mount/pet that they already have...on all their toons! Then its vendor trash, whereas a dps toon working a specific dungeon for a specific drop knows that if they get the wining ticket, they'll get exactly what they want.==> not very unfair at all.
Give currently pure DPS roles the chance to spec as a tank or heals and I think you will find that the queue times will shorten for everyone.And you'll have that many more 'bad' tanks/heals, such as the one I was up against last night: Paladin tank, in gear that had that was meant for healing and agility items.....or the DPS plate who roll on the gear that my enhance shaman needs, such as trinkets and rings with agility on them.If Blizz introduces a totally new role, for example a rogue tank based on dodge/evasion tactics.... you are going to have a similar experience as we all did when DKs were introduced. Many will try it, some will succeed, some will fail. Eventually you will have no different ratio of good to bad tanks as we have today.Again, i'll leave implementation to the experts, but I believe that adding the available tank specs will increase the # of tanks and would be better than DKs because people who pick it will already know their class, just have to learn a new role.