So, I would get nothing? So to get a chance of receiving rare mounts or non-combat pets I would have to role a healer or a tank? Fun times. Other then the apparent 'new' hatchling, you can get this out of Heroic Sethekk, this out of Heroic MGT, both of which are easily soloable now a days, this out of Deadside Strat. Him from exalted Sporeggar, this from the AT Alliance and that from the AT Horde. Farm mobs in STV, that one from BB. They are available for other sources then just the bags.
Tanks and healers take the brunt of the abuse, and I think this is something you should be addressing instead of thinking that maybe people are too lazy to take on the responsibility of healing or tanking. How do you propose Blizzard should go about changing the attitudes of the player-base? What Blizzard is doing here is so far the best idea I've seen to fix the queues.
Also: I disagree. DPS are told off for their mistakes as well, often. It just depends on your group.True, sometimes DPS are told off for their mistakes, but even then that sometimes doesn't even happen until the DPS yells at the healer "You just going to keep letting me DIE over and over? Stupid healer!"Healer replies "Well, if you keep standing in fire/pulling aggro you're going to keep dying, I have to keep the tank up."Tank and other DPS agree. Bad dps keeps making passive-aggressive comments about the healer's laziness or whatever the rest of the run. Healer keeps mouth shut and keeps doing their job, quietly seething and only healing the rude DPS when absolutely necessary.Good times. Also see: getting booted from a 4/5 "guild run" random heroic because gosh darn it 3K DPS each from all 3 DPS wasn't enough to down the boss before the tank's sub-par health pool was exhausted. Yeah, I'm sure that was all the healer's fault... :P
True, sometimes DPS are told off for their mistakes, but even then that sometimes doesn't even happen until the DPS yells at the healer "You just going to keep letting me DIE over and over? Stupid healer!"Untrue. I get yelled at even when CC'ing the correct target and doing top DPS because I take damage from AoE.No joke.
How about, instead of Call to Arms for certain group roles, have call to arms for certain Dungeons? Then everyone gets the bag, and everyone is encouraged to que.Do people even understand anything? The problem now is that there are not enough tanks. Having more DPS queue because they will get a reward does nothing to fix that.All anyone is thinking about is ´omg, I want a bag too´. The bad is being introduced to help FIX A PROBLEM....
Tanks and healers take the brunt of the abuse, and I think this is something you should be addressing instead of thinking that maybe people are too lazy to take on the responsibility of healing or tanking. How do you propose Blizzard should go about changing the attitudes of the player-base? This is so far the best idea I've seen to fix the queues.Can't realistically be done unless you want like a million moderators on WoW.
I think this is possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. Yes it is all well and good giving the incentive to tanks and healers. But what about the DPS? I myself play a Warlock.. So, I would get nothing? So to get a chance of receiving rare mounts or non-combat pets I would have to role a healer or a tank? Fun times. Also, I would like to point out that there is no problem with tanking / healing classes themselves, it is the abuse tanks and healers get. I have a tank, and as good as I am, I do make mistakes every now and then. And one mistake can cause people to be damn right rude and insulting. DPS rarely get a telling off for mistakes. Tanks and healers take the brunt of the abuse, and I think this is something you should be addressing instead of thinking that maybe people are too lazy to take on the responsibility of healing or tanking. The lack of them, is purely because, when people play WoW, they want to have a fun and enjoyable experience, instead of being shouted at for making a simple mistake. We are only human after all and we cannot stop human error. So until the abuse stops and players start actually being supportive of tanks and healers, then there will always be a shortage. Praise goes a long way and can improve players skills in tanking / healing. So for those of you who do give tanks / healers abuse, and feel the urge to shout "noob" at a tank / healer, how about you have some compassion and be a bit more supportive.You get faster queue times.. which is the entire purpose of this change.
You get faster queue times.. which is the entire purpose of this change.Assuming the incentives work. That has yet to be demonstrated, however. My own opinion is that they won't work, not over the long run.
All you QQers sounds like sellfish little kids who cry about the candy bar that the kid next door got, and hell ya, you want one too.Making the Call to Arms a dungeon specific or group wide doesn't help ANYTHING. If all know that they will get the bag by queueuing, that will just increase all queuers, not make the tanks shortage go away.THIS WILL LOWER YOUR QUEUE TIME. Get it? Is there a possibility that your little brains could fathom this little piece of information?Tanks will usually get a bag for lowering your queue time. Someties the healer will. And maybe, just maybe in future there is a moment where it is the DPS that will get bag. The possibility is there.All you want to do is revert this change, since you think that the tanks get "more" than you are getting.Nvm, I give in. There's just no arguing with stupid people. Please continue QQing.
THIS WILL LOWER YOUR QUEUE TIME. NO. NO IT WON'T.
So you're saying: "LOLMAGETANK" would be better than having arcane mages period?Yanno, I'd be down for a tanking spec for mages. Clothie tanks would be a very unique addition to the game. Make it similar to that mage tank specialization from Dragon Age or something. Though it seems like Frost would make more sense tanking than Arcane, but it already has a pretty defined roll.If you look at it Arcane has a lot of abilities sprinkled in-- they just need focused on this purpose and upgraded towards that end.We'd need: A level 10 Specialization that causes/increases threat generation while waiting for cast times of spells.A Mastery that converts Int and or Spell power into Armor and or Stamina.Incanter's Absorption could be retooled to increase threat as well, and a straight up Improved Mana Shield could be added. This will push the line that for the Mage tank HP and Mana are interchangeable.Obviously Glyph of Evocation is a must for the Mage Tank.Make Improved Arcane Explosion increase threat instead of lesson threat, then that spell can serve as the primary AOE pull, and since Mage tanks generate threat while waiting through casting times, Arcane Burst still serves as the single target pull.Bosses who are all immune to counterspell but vulnerable to warrior/paladin interrupts would need to be vulnerable to Counterspell as well. (you would be surprised the number of these there are, i.e. Baron Ashbury in Shadowmoon Keep.)Prismatic Cloak (which we can't bother to take because it doesn't increase DPS) is suddenly a very useful/required talent, and could be made a little stronger (since we are still clothies after all.)Improved Mana Gem could be retooled to be more defensive-- possibly kicks in another shield effect or restores HP and Mana instead of giving a Damage buff.A Spell avoidance effect similar to parry/dodge could be added in-- possibly off the Improved Blink tree that represents the Mage phasing in and out of reality at a moments notice to avoid attacks.For those of you who say this would "homogenize" the classes you are wrong on every level. A mage tank would feel inherently different in every way than other tanks. They would be more different than the current tanking classes are from each other in all honesty, because they would still be accomplishing everything with magic, not swords. They'd value stats differently (Stam/Int/Mastery at the top).In D&D there is a Mage specialization that focuses on protective magic called the Abjurer-- and protective magic has been as much a part of the lore of the fantasy genre as fireballs and magic missiles, so I don't see any reason why Blizzard shouldn't look at doing this which would create a very unique, useful, well defined role which would set up the Mage class to do things in a flavor and style no other class currently does.
Tanks and healers take the brunt of the abuse, and I think this is something you should be addressing instead of thinking that maybe people are too lazy to take on the responsibility of healing or tanking. How do you propose Blizzard should go about changing the attitudes of the player-base? This is so far the best idea I've seen to fix the queues.Can't realistically be done unless you want like a million moderators on WoW.I meant the idea Blizzard is implementing in 4.1 is the best idea I have heard to fix the queues. No amount of moderation can change peoples attitudes. Ask your local dictator.
I am seeing people calling others stupid or insulting them--there is no need to do this. If this continues, the thread will be locked and anyone who has done this will receive a warning. You can disagree peacefully. Some people think this is will reduce queue times and others don't. Some people think it's unfair to give tanks rewards and others don't. This is fine. Calling someone stupid is not.
I really really like the idea, until I read that Deathcharger's Reins were in the mix. That upset me. I did 200+ runs to get that mount...worked my butt off, and now they're just giving it away. *ANGER*
OK, so my last post I made after reading about this was rushed as I was leaving for work. I suggested making the goodie bad avaliable to everyone in run when the Call to Arms came up. Now, I admit, even right after posting it, the thought came to mind....this (kinda) leaves us where we are now...only with goodie bags for heroics.One one hand, that is exactly true....sort of. Making the bags avaliable to everyone on the run is pretty much the same thing as what Blizz did to stop the insta-dropping from Occlus runs. And, well, that "sort of" worked. Im not sure if adding the goodie bags would have enough of an effect to get tanks to que, if the bag was given to all players in the run....but really, it should have the same effect. In reality, even if the bags went to everyone in the group, it should be incintive to get tanks to que up. The only difference would be it wouldn't prompt a DPS to swap over to tank just for the extra loot. So while it wouldn't have as much of an effect, I think it would still decrease DPS que times. I dunno...in principle, I don't mind the idea that much...Im not gonna nerd-rage over it, but it is an interesting precedent for Blizz to be setting, as it is the one of the only things I can remember being implemented that targets giving additional rewards to a specific class. The only other thing I can even think of was the original Raven Lord mount being only for Druids. And even then, wasn't the mount open to all, you just needed a Druid to summon Anzu?I guess looking at it from both sides...I am happy that they are trying to reduce the ques...maybe my Warlock will get to see a few more Heroics now, but I also see where the DPS rage is comming from as well, because to be honest, I don't ever see a Call to Arms:DPS popping up. One thing I would suggest to everyone....if you have any decent ideas for changes that would maybe make the system still work, but be more "fair", get em to Blizz on the official forums, as I would expect they might actually be open to ideas on this one.
I agree, Ashelia. This needs to be locked before it becomes a massive flame war. While I love seeing people QQ (I'm evil, okay?) I don't think it is a good idea to start a war here. This was only 7 pages long yesterday, its post count has doubled, this is never going to stop, we need to lock this while it is still safe.
I don't agree with rewarding one (or in this case two) roles over another. There has to be another way and I feel that Blizz have now just taken the easy way out. Too bad for dps only classes or those who enjoy playing dps. Whatever happened to playing what you love?
I really really like the idea, until I read that Deathcharger's Reins were in the mix. That upset me. I did 200+ runs to get that mount...worked my butt off, and now they're just giving it away. *ANGER*Not 'giving' it away, since the Deathcharger has just as much chance to drop as the Ravenlord or the White Hawkstrider; in other words, low. Most people will be ending up with the Gems more then likely.
You get faster queue times.. which is the entire purpose of this change.Assuming the incentives work. That has yet to be demonstrated, however. My own opinion is that they won't work, not over the long run.How do you expect them to demonstrate it? The only way to do that is to test it; hence, the reason why it's up and on 'beta' so to speak.The whole point of this change is to try and 'bribe' tanks into doing more heroics, and that's ripped straight from the blue post itself. I'm a tank, and if this change went live, I'd probably be tempted to do another heroic or two extra after the guild run. That's the whole purpose and 'incentive' of this new system.I confess, the pets and mounts have have been a bit over the top. Though from what I've found out, it'd be easier to farm the pets/mounts the old way since the chance of it dropping from the goodie bag is just as low, if not a smidge lower.You are losing nothing out of this. Your queue times are being shortened more than likely, and, really, if this change really bothers you so much, you could always level up a tank since it's not hard anymore and join the tanking crowd. Now you have instant queue times and a goodie bag because you joined the role that is most in demand! Congratulations, you've contributed to the solution!
1) Make it a requirement that both tanks and healers have successfully completed all bosses in normal modes.2) Make sure that they have Spec/gear to do the role that was choosen. And are not clicking the window because there able to.3) Make it that if the get vote kicked for a horrible job that they are allowed 3 attempts per day. If they get kicked from 3 dungeons then they are locked out of the feature. And are not able to use it until instances reset.To me thats they only way to succesfully allow the feature to work the way that it is designed to work. And not be a failed attempt to start solving a problem with those 30-45 minute que times.Einstein ^^ (however, ALL roles should have to complete normal modes, not merely tank/heals)And because this is my 2 copper:meh.Did my tanking stint in Vanilla. Been Fury ever since, not about to change. Never had inclination to be a healer.Here's what works for me: I can run Sethekk Halls at least twice in a 40 min queue - not that I need to, have had Raven Lord for a while now. I can blow thru Strat at least 3-4 times in a 40 min queue...Deathcharger still eludes me. Already got all the aforementioned pets, most tabards too. I farm herbs/ore/skins whatever I feel like on the day while I wait in queue. Almost have 100 unique commons and 20 rares in arky. I've got 40 Blacksmithing plans left to find in total, and tend to farm the zones that drop them. I'm also going for Insane title...plenty to get done there. Other times I will peruse the AH looking for the last Blood of the Mountain to make another Sulfuron Hammer for a guildie or a stack of cheap herbs etc. The list goes on...and on...and on...I have no compunction about earning what I have. By the same token, I care not how others get what they have, as long as it's within the boundaries of the game and it's ToU etc.tl;drThere is plenty to do while you wait. It doesn't work for everyone, but frankly I don't give a flying carpet because it's not going to affect me in the slightest. However, arcticwolf's idea above has merit for a couple of reasons, not the least of which are dungeon efficiency through roles being adequately learned and game longevity as a direct result of that. Now that would be a win/win.edit: typo/grammar and bold for the obvious.