I think dungeon things should not be hard. Its easy named looking. And so. No cc will hopefull be needed soon. Normal easyneess is quite good.So my point is make them easyer.Spoken like an Engrish Wrath player.....Its spelled english. Man
Yes it is, but you speak lots and lots of Engrish.
I think dungeon things should not be hard. Its easy named looking. And so. No cc will hopefull be needed soon. Normal easyneess is quite good.So my point is make them easyer.Spoken like an Engrish Wrath player.....Its spelled english. ManTroll or trollee? Hard to determine.
We downed the first trash pull on the way to Magmaw without a problem. It took us about 7 wipes to down the second trash pull (with the two Drakonic Drudges).I remember first time my guild killed those! We actually had more problems with them than the boss, rofl.But yes, I can see both positive and negative things with Randon Dungeon Finder. If you fail getting a group on your server, this tool can help you get one. IF you have time waiting 40 minutes as a DPS. IF you can stand wiping. I am quite good geared, with a mix of HC, reputation and raid gear. I am playing a frost death knight and I have experienced that a lot of tanks have problems keeping up aggro. I can give them up to 10 seconds to get aggro, and yet, if I only use one of my attacks I suddenly become the tank. This is one of the main reasons I am against Dungeon Finder: I don't want to wait 40 minutes, to wipe because of a crappy geared (or just crappy) tank and then see the group falls apart (Oh, and I just love getting blamed on). Let's say I'd votekick the tank; people will still leave. People cba waiting for a new tank. Same goes with healer, although it goes much faster finding one of these. One Saturday before Cataclysm, I was doing a WoTLK heroic. I found two of the most awesome people ever in this group, and we farmed heroics from 11 a.m to like 7 p.m. or something. We had a great time, but it's so sad that I will never get to play with them again. Blizzard implemented this DF, but if they want to keep it they should atleast make it possible for us to choose other players we want to play with. I can't just sit here and hope I'm lucky everytime I'm doing an instance. Another negative thing about it: Someone mentioned before that he or she doesn't know the people on the server anymore. That is so true. Neither do I. Before Dungeon Finder I often started groups for instances (Remember the daily heroic quest?). Things like this don't exist anymore. I got a lot of contacts and made a lot of new friends. I remember staying up, doing instances with a group, spamming trade because I/we were so tired and having a lot of fun. We don't do anything together as a server anyone, as players being on the same server. The only thing left are guilds. It's a shame. I miss the old times.I know someone will tell me that I still can make my own groups. Yes, I can. But wanna know the truth? No one will join them - because there is no point. TLDR: Dungeon Finder sucks, there is no good "We-are-all-a-family" atmosphere on the realms anymore because of it, I get to know new people but never meet them again, I am tired of having to do them because I need the Valor Points even though I am over-geared for them and I am tired of meeting !@#$%^bags and idiots. EDIT: Yes, I do love the new heroics. They are challenging and fun! (Most of them... I hate Throne of the Tides.) I get happy everytime I see that I get to do Deadmines or SFK.. Brilliant! I don't mind wiping, it is a part of the game. I just don't like wiping because of some random tank not being able to keep aggro. I also HATE playing together with Crushridge or Burning Legion players (No offense, I have met some English speaking-people there), almost all of them are completely ignorant and only speak their own language. So PLEASE bring us back the old system.Yes, I do have a guild. No, I don't know any tanks. (The tanks in my guild are only doing achievements with their friends) That makes me a bit screwed.
Question:When is lfd insided to the game by the way? When doed you make own groups for everything?
Question:When is lfd insided to the game by the way? When doed you make own groups for everything?When you make them with your guild or 'real' friends.
Question:When is lfd insided to the game by the way? When doed you make own groups for everything?When you make them with your guild or 'real' friends.I mean. When it comed to game, when was own groups only? Time in world.
About half way through Wrath.
I think dungeon things should not be hard. Its easy named looking. And so. No cc will hopefull be needed soon. Normal easyneess is quite good.So my point is make them easyer.Spoken like an Engrish Wrath player.....Its spelled english. ManThe irony. It burnsssssss
It's only been month. Give it time to right itself. The pugs are awful at the moment because the right replacements haven't filled the ranks yet. I'm seeing friends who hadn't been on for well over a year making returns. These were the pre-Wrath player who quit when Wrath became a zergfest. Add them to the up and coming levelers who hopefully are learning class mechanics properly and soon enough they will displace the Wrath babies. As for the difficulties of the heroic...good. That means leveling a crafting skill that can afford yourself to make better gear. It means earning gold to buy what you need to get bet better. It means becoming a 3-D player again and not a one dimensional lock-n-load player.Here's one for laughs...how about recruiting a server group and flying there like they did in the old days. No LFD. If it doesn't work..you walk out and recruit again. Get to know the people on your server again. The LFD was in fact designed for the Wrath babies, who wanted everything breast fed to them.
Just out of curiosity, do you have any actual evidence to quantify this statement? They registered on a forum pertaining to the game in question. That to me signifies enough of an investment in the game on an emotional level to equal addiction. They also make a big show of threatening to quit, like a small child throwing a temper tantrum, wanting attention and validation of their viewpoint. They don't want to quit, though. They just want the game to change to make their fix easier to get.The ones who don't register, to me at least, seem less entangled in the game and its community and more inclined to simply leave if they feel it's not worth their time anymore.Also:Some people like the heroics hard; some don't. What matters isn't their arguments or even the merits of their case, what matters is how big the 2 groups are, and how committed they are to their position.And this is what I've previously pointed out, and which GC has right. The silent majority votes with their wallets, not with long rants on bulletin boards(that's the vocal minority). Blizz is watching numbers very carefully. I'm sure they have a team of market analysts and experts mining the sub data and customer feedback to see how to weight things between those two groups. They will try things, make changes, and observe. They've been doing it for six years now. I think their Bottom Line shows they're pretty damn good at it.
What he's also forgetting is that WotLK Heroics used to be difficult for us! I remember the wipes again and again on Loken before we figured out the strategy and even then it was difficult. It wasn't until players had overgeared that healers confidently said "Just keep going I'll heal through Lightning Nova" and the encounter became trivial.This. It infuriates me to no end the whining about how "easy" Wrath heroics were; it's true that maybe the trash packs could have been more difficult, and I like the way you have to play smarter now, but I feel like every time someone complains about how easy Wrath heroics were they're completely trivializing the fact that the heroics were of a perfectly suitable difficulty at the beginning of the expansion. I quit running Wrath heroics within 3 months of release, had gear at or just below ilvl 200, and found them to be very, very easy compared to BC heroics. CC was never used, not once. I had a vague understanding of most bosses at best, but only the electrical boss in HoS (?) gave consistent trouble. AOE could be used with impunity.Compared with BC heroics, it was night and day. I even said so here: http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=72889Edit - it is interesting that GC essentially confirmed my major complaints about wrath heroics in that thread in this post today.
It's unreasonable. He says he wants it like a puzzle- but that's not the chief complaint. The chief complaint is that everything hits too hard if you under gear it. It is unreasonable that I cannot use the LFG and be able to be successful if I and at least 2 other people know the fight.GC is not being unreasonable. If you undergear the encounter, that's not Blizzards fault. They give you enough opportunity to get gear, gems and enchants. If you go into a dungeon undergeared you should feel nervous and be aware that you probably won't be pulling as much weight as you should.We want groups to communicate and strategize.This. One thousand times.
things start to go wrong, you might want to take a moment to analyze why they are going wrong before you bail. I do weep for those players who join an in-progress Heroic Rajh attempt (with suspicious player skeletons everywhere), immediately pull without any discussion, and then have the tank leave the group following the first wipe. That’s not fun for anyone and not going to lead to success. These aren't the original Scholomance or Arcatraz runs that could take four hours with respawns. Making a couple of concerted attempts on Rajh is probably going to be faster than going into the queue again. andthe game could do a better job of telling a group why they failed so that so much blame doesn’t fall at the feet of the healer. We talk a lot about not standing in fires, but equally important is the number of bosses that spawn in adds that must be gathered up and/or burned down quickly, or in some cases ignored. We’re also asking a lot of DPS or tanks in those situations, but that information isn’t always conveyed well except through trial and error. As I noted in a prior thread at the core of the CAT Heroic/LFD failure is these issues. GC seems to be arguing past a point - in many instances it is much faster just to kick and replace than to make 2+ concerted attempts. That incents early kick and uncivil exchanges. His second quote brings up the lack of transparency and thus the incentives to blame everyone but when wipes happen (I also think GC must occasionally pug as a healer - there is no way that tanks don't take more grief)But all said and done GCis pretty clear. Blizzard has made a choice. It has decided that it wants a higher percentage of its Heroics to be run "in guild" rather than out. Perhaps limited in its design choices, it create dungeons that just require a high degree of cooperation and understanding of the "puzzle" to get right. So it is, what it is. PUGs can be done but they are suboptimal and, as endlessly discussed in a prior thread, do not encourage social/civil play.Let me close with one small uggestion. LESS TRASH - or at least LESS TRASH if 4-5 players have previously cleared and majority of group opts for less trash. At this point gear is to the point that sucessful CC and pulls are relatively easy. They unfortunately are NOT fast. It turns what ideally would be about 1 to 1.5 hour activity into a 2.5 hour commitment because of the extra time to mark, prepare, mana up, etc. The nerf to DM and the trash was definately a start in the right direction. Grim Batol could probably use 3 less trash groups or a bit of a buff on the drakes for the bombing runs. Lost City and Vortex seem about right. WAY too much trash for Str. Keep. Give players the option of running it "full" if they are looking for BOE trash drops or rep but allow them to cut by 33% the time spent "clearing". I honestly think that some survey's post run would show this is the biggest frustration - the endless trash pulls and fights that ARE going to end in victory at this point but which each take a three to four minutes from set up to completion. When you are doing 15-20 of those during a heroic it ads up.
Zorrah said:I work 12 hour shifts and the last thing I want to do is come home and have to concentrate, think and plan a 2-3 hour heroicbawwwwwwwwwtake your casual tears somewhere else pleaseok, Mr bawwwwwwwwwwww ... what does your day consist of... eating a bowl of cereal.. "lolzn" your way through school... coming home sitting your a@@ in your chair and playing a game till bed... some people don't have the luxury of doing nothing all damn day and we do this ta relax... so, unless you have something useful ta say, zip it.school?sorry kid,i dont goto school anymore.im looking for a job,you know.what people who arent kids dooh and sorry but.ill say things even if they arent useful,if theres anything in this game i dispise are casuals who whine all the time.its no ones fault but yourself that you dont have the time to dedicate to get thru things.so shut up and stop cryingI make 90K a year and will retire at 51 years old in 8 years with full pay for the rest of my life....and I may complain a bit that I don't want to come home and plan a 3 hour heroic but you're "looking" for a job, nice....Might be best to get off our computer and start looking for a job just a bit harder. Get a career man...then come back and see how much time you can raid without making it tough to keep that career. Shut up and stop raiding.....find a job. Or are you living in your parents basement concentrating so hard on a game that will get you no where in a few years.Enjoy the game....don't make it your life.
Forgot to add: I don't agree where GC is going with this...soooo... :) I'm going to farm profession mats, get all my professions to 525 and make gold...oh and and level up alts. Then when they finally do nerf the heroics I'll be there with my 329's...all ready to soak up the rep and gear from everyone who worked so hard to get all the gear and farm them tirelessly! I haven't been in an instance in 2 weeks..not even a regular...although I've done all of them and even tanked 4-5 heroics on my pally in 330-340ish iLvl gear. I'll wait it out. I'm done with 2 hour runs. I'd like to personally thank each and every future 5 man partner that I have for carrying me though all of the heroics :) Thanks Blizz...and GC!
I think dungeon things should not be hard. Its easy named looking. And so. No cc will hopefull be needed soon. Normal easyneess is quite good.So my point is make them easyer.Spoken like an Engrish Wrath player.....Its spelled english. ManThe irony. It burnsssssssNot as much as my eyes...
*applause*I for one am having a great time in regular dungeons. Regulars are feeling a lot like WOLK Heroics now. Once I have all the great rep pieces, I'll be ready for Heroics, rather than just jumping into them right at the start. Good job.Cheers.Agreed.I hated the mindest: Hi I just popped 80, let me run heroics so I can gear up. wtf!It took me weeks to get gear good enough to even think about running heroics when WoTLK first came out and these turkeys are showing up in greens (not all gear at level 80 btw) and maybe one or two blues and think it's their divine right for a PUG to carry them through a heroic! The cata balance is great, at first I was like holy crap, I can't heal through this... wipe wipe wipe. So I actually took time to gear up properly through rep gear and questing. Now I can confidently heal through a normal instance if the PUG isn't a bunch of no_0bs. The difficulty is great! Good work Blizzard!
The problem here is that Blizzard needs to teach mechanics all along the leveling curve, not just at max level heroic content. If they did, the players will grow and be more comfortable in support roles as part of the learning experience, instead of just blowing through and zerging content until heroics, where of course they are surprised by the difficulty!This.Yup!
Pretty much.I just stopped running Cata heroics all together.I'm a Pally tank, and the dungeon finder is useless now.Why?Something tells me it might have something to do with the last heroic I ran.Blackrock Caverns.I went through six healers.SIX.HEALERS.Six healers, and three DPS.Nobody knows these fights.Nobody has the patience to actually put some EFFORT into it and get this done.And, quite honestly. I don't have the time to be going red on my armor three times over in one heroic because nobody knows what to do.It's stupid. I don't mind things being hard. Knowing the strategies and putting them into use is a must.But what good is it if I'm being beaten to a bloody pulp?Either fix healing. Or fix the boss' damage.I'm not going to run a single heroic until this %^&* gets fixed, or people learn patience.