Pretty much everything GC said here is true.The current heroics are awesome and actually a decent challenge (for being on gear level with it). Tanks cannot just go pull everything anymore, healers have to actually try instead of facerolling their Flash Heal or w.e spell they used, and Dps has to do their best to remain outside of any deadly abilities the boss performs to put less stress on the healer.tl;dr: There is nothing wrong with heroics, people just need to learn to play without their head up their ass
If you’re sophisticated enough to try and game the item-level requirements, you should be sophisticated enough to know if you can actually handle the content.Snarky, but I like. 8^)
What he's also forgetting is that WotLK Heroics used to be difficult for us! I remember the wipes again and again on Loken before we figured out the strategy and even then it was difficult. It wasn't until players had overgeared that healers confidently said "Just keep going I'll heal through Lightning Nova" and the encounter became trivial.This. It infuriates me to no end the whining about how "easy" Wrath heroics were; it's true that maybe the trash packs could have been more difficult, and I like the way you have to play smarter now, but I feel like every time someone complains about how easy Wrath heroics were they're completely trivializing the fact that the heroics were of a perfectly suitable difficulty at the beginning of the expansion. And whenever I point that out, there are always numerous people who will say "No, the heroics were always easy, I never wiped," etc. I don't know if they're lying or just remembering poorly, but it's basically an insult on a lot of good players who still had trouble with the fights. Loken is a GREAT example- eventually we outgeared it, but it was quite difficult even in a lot of Naxx gear depending on your healer.Don't get me wrong; it drove me nuts at the end of Wrath when everything was just FACEROLLFACEROLLFACEROLL and if you tried to point out a fight mechanic to someone there was another person with a Kingslayer title and full tier 10.5 saying "LOLJUSTPULL" because he knew you could just power through it. That's bad- you want people to experience the mechanics of fights, not just be able to roflstomp everything. Anyway, the original message from Ghostcrawler is encouraging, even if he's forgetting that Heroics were actually hard in Wrath. I think that they're doing a good job overall, constantly improving, and at this point I'm confident that they're attempting to make the game as enjoyable to the largest number of people possible. It does suck that PuG groups are a total tossup in terms of whether or not they're going to be successful, but already I'm seeing people improve as they get used to fights.
I enjoy the new difficulty, it does make it more rewarding, and an overall better experience (If your group isn't full of Impatient people) much better than Wrath.
I think though it might be a bit tricky for the programmers but to have difficulty be based on ilevel. i.e. If the average ilevel of the group is 356 have it be tougher than if the average ilevel of the group is 329
Heroics are the destination? I thought raids were the destination.
So, WotLK dungeons were too easy so they're compensating too much in the other direction and feel it's about right.
I think the important part is this:We also just tend to nerf content over time because the original players hitting that content have moved on, so we want to open it up to a wider audience.IOW, IT WILL GET EASIER LATER. BE PATIENT. If you can't do it now, chill. They'll start making it more faceroll-friendly later. Of course, by that point you won't have a big shiny e-peen to show off, but...meh.
So, WotLK dungeons were too easy so they're compensating too much in the other direction and feel it's about right.Um. It really isn't overcompensated at all.I think the important part is this:We also just tend to nerf content over time because the original players hitting that content have moved on, so we want to open it up to a wider audience.IOW, IT WILL GET EASIER LATER. BE PATIENT. If you can't do it now, chill. They'll start making it more faceroll-friendly later. Of course, by that point you won't have a big shiny e-peen to show off, but...meh.Yes, by then they'll release more heroic 5-mans that will be hard.
If they look as awesome as Forge of Souls, I'll be happy.
since i hit 85 on my shaman i dreaded heroics. A lot of people still have the "zerg kill kill" mode from WotLK which ended with us dying. Healers either were properly geared and didn't know how to heal or they knew how to heal but didn't have the gear for it. I've actually stopped playing since i hit 85 and worked on a few alts but in reality i kinda left WoW for other computer games. Burning Crusade was a perfect example of how expansions should go (besides BT being released earlier than it should have). Each Dungeon had easy and hard parts about it. While in Cata, everything is hard in the dungeon. The Mobs hit ridiculously hard on the tank. Yeah you can CC but you shouldn't need to CC 3 out of the 5 mobs just to kill them. Just weaken the damage they put out and increase their health and i'm sure everyone will be happy.
It really is their own fault for making WOTLK easy mode. Now they return to Vanilla and BC style dungeons and wonder why people get mad.
If they look as awesome as Forge of Souls, I'll be happy.Indeed.It really is their own fault for making WOTLK easy mode. Now they return to Vanilla and BC style dungeons and wonder why people get mad.Actually, I'm inclined to think they partially did it on purpose to get more players into the game.
I am one of those healers who quit because of the difficulty changes. Not because they are AMGSOHARD. But because the time that it takes now to be able to gear up no longer fits my schedule and how much I can play due to life. And it sucks.Yes. Content in Wrath was less interesting mechanics wise but at least I felt like I could obtain something. Now, what used to take me a few days or a week to do, seems impossible. I haven't even managed to get enough valor points to buy a single piece of gear. It's been weeks. I realize Blizzard can't control my life or bend to my every whim but I could at least make it work in Wrath. Now, I've just given up. Given up on the thought of ever being able to raid at a pace where I don't feel left behind.And it sucks.I miss playing and the fun I had but it's just not worth it to me.The Dungeon Finder is a joke and makes me angry. With over 12 million subscribers you are gonna get so many people who just don't care or know what they are doing and it's unfair that I have to put up with that. It also ruined servers. I used to know people on my server, good or bad. Now, I know my guild mates and that's it. Make the dungeon finder have options for server only or cross server so we have a choice in how we want to utilize it. Those that want the larger pool of people to pull from can still group with people from Ragnaros if they want, but I sure as hell don't want to.
*applause*I for one am having a great time in regular dungeons. Regulars are feeling a lot like WOLK Heroics now. Once I have all the great rep pieces, I'll be ready for Heroics, rather than just jumping into them right at the start. Good job.Cheers.
Ghostcrawler wrote: Archaeologists can even unlock small bonuses in the new dungeons.This is the first I’ve heard of this. What are these bonuses?
@Ghostcrawler yup... and at the end of the day.... it will ALL get nerfed... we know it is coming... when they start seeing people falling off the wow wagon because they are as he put it "not having fun"that put's a dent in their wallet....I for one am not some of these kids saying ohh they are fine ... I been playing since last part of Vanilla and now into cata.I hope they do nerf them down a bit... freaking hung up my healer "my fav class" when a game becomes not fun and more like a second jobit is time 2 move on... now, here is where the a$$hat kids will chime in with their snotty remarks... and I will just ignore them cause I would almost bet 100 % most are wotlk generation. so hush up...and yes we CC and yes we finish heroics.... they are just not fun when you are pulling your hair out and freaking sweating bullets....you went a total 180 deg turn on game mechanics ... I know I am not the only one pissed off here and seriously thinking of jumping ship...where will that leave you... when the people that stuck around for sooooo long leave. and the A.D.D generation decides it is time ta move on when a NEW new game comes out... I have ta wonder really... do the people that make these changes and fight dynamics actually play the game? I understand what you were trying ta do, I do. I just think you guys went over the top and why on earth, really, would you make it stupid hard ta begin with then get easier as you go... that is backward should be easier when you start and harder as you go... did I like facerolling heroics in woltk.. kinda ya... I have a life outside of wow.. I dont have time ta sit down for a 3 hr "exaggerated" heroicI wanna get in get out... how do you expect people to keep failing over and over and over and over before they say screw this ? anyway... let the troll fest and ghostcrawler "clan of worshipers" began 2 flog me over a open fire... dont really care I have no interest in what is said after I vent this....
The problem here is that Blizzard needs to teach mechanics all along the leveling curve, not just at max level heroic content. If they did, the players will grow and be more comfortable in support roles as part of the learning experience, instead of just blowing through and zerging content until heroics, where of course they are surprised by the difficulty!At 85, that multi-tiered difficulty system would be nice. Instead of giving out higher ilvl gear (just an extension of the problem), the hardest difficulty would just give greater quantities of loot and badge points as a reward. Maybe 2 drops for each boss? That way, there is a tangible reward for running harder versions of dungeons but competitive loot doesn't feel as out-of-reach or unattainable.There's lots of potential in the Dungeon Finder system; making it more configurable and flexible can only be a good thing.
"We want groups to communicate and strategize." Someone doesn't use the Dungeon Finder =P.
Example one: we reverted the 10x honor from Tol Barad pretty quickly. It was a mistake. Example two: Heroic Strike is too dominant an attack for warriors. That was a mistake. Example three: the Lich King Heroic dungeons (and Naxxramas) were too easy to zerg, setting up an expansion-long expectation that purple gear would come easy and often. In retrospect, that was a mistake.Heroic Strike being a nice warrior ability is a screwup on par with the Tol Barad nonsense and making LK a faceroll-fest? Really?