Thank God there isn't anywhere where he said 'they're not too long' just 'they're not too hard' because I only agree with the second statement. Hopefully sooner or later they'll see the light and remove about half of the redundant trash pulls from heroics.The bosses are fantastic. A good difficulty level, rewarding to kill, better than Wrath by a mile etc., but trash isn't any harder than it was in Wrath. Just longer.Polymorph -> tab key -> fireball spam is not HARDER than blizzard -> blizzard -> blizzard. It just takes a hell of a lot longer. Especially when trash mobs have far more HP than they really need to. Also, copy and pasting easy crap doesn't make a dungeon harder.Because really, when was the last time you steamrolled through the first six identical trash pulls in Grim Batol but the NEXT six identical trash pulls were oh so difficult? There's three types of trash pulls in Grim Batol: one of which is repeated like 20 times. Once you've mastered that type in the first ~3 or 4 pulls, everything else is just time-sucking filler. No amount of repeats after the first three times or so offers any additional challenge. The saving grace of Wrath trash was that it was the same, but each trash pull took like 30 seconds rather than three minutes with a mana break at the end.
I tend to avoid instances and raiding, as the majority of players I encounter instantly kick me because I am not geared, and don't play by their game plan. I prefer to play solo the majority of the time, so my gear and play style are not what they consider "appropriate". As a result, I tend to avoid content that shoves me in the midst of players who have been focused on gearing for Raiding and nothing else, because - for me - raiding is not why I play the game. I just enjoy the immersive experience, the questing and the mindless farming of fodder. Now that you understand my perspective, I feel free to say that I believe Blizzard took the right approach with this expansion. Level 85 dungeons should be experienced on regular mode until you are fully geared for Heroic versions of the same. Otherwise, there is NO POINT in having them in regular and heroic mode.If you want to get the Shiz gear easy, do what every other Jack-Hole-Twank out there does, and join a guild that will run you through on their shirt-tails.
I love what Blizz has done with the new instances and their mechanics. It gives a challenge to those of who wants it, it also sets you up for raiding and situational awareness. They have made it pretty simple once again, if its on the floor and your standing in it, your taking damage, move! What Blizz has done is brilliant, they have basically took scrubs outta the pic, couple wipes learning the fight and they usually bounce. Good, because they are usually the ones to wipe you anyway. If you think heroics are too hard, delete your toons and go play LoTR, cause your just leaching xp and oxygen from others.
There not to hard. They are however a fair chunk harder than Lich King. Personally I've been choosing when I do them rather than in lich king where I would just do one because I had a spare half hour. Both because I need to be awake and have more time to do them. First one or two as both heals and tank were a bit stressful but once you learn the fights you don't die unless somebody else does something stupid. Had to stop healing DPS on one boss fight so I could keep the tank healed. Two of them died from standing in a nasty boss AoE. You have to get used to as an article I saw the other day said "You can't heal stupid anymore".
for the a$$hat that is #$%^&ing about healers taking a MB after each pull... you are the one I let die cause you are the retard that stands in the "stupid" just 2 boost dps.. I have no problem at all letting you die. however long it takes before you start 2 move ...Healers are being put 2 the test in this and for anybody that thinks otherwise ... roll one and find outI for one DO think it is a bit 2 hard I play this for fun... not a headache and since I will not check post again... I will go all out.I hope they nerf them down and give the healers back some of the power we had before right now there is NO reason at all for me 2 be going OOM on fricking trash other than I have a titanic size hole in my mana pool... and yes, we CC crap.... I have parked my healer and actually stopped playing and I still read these things hoping I will see, "ok we changed this and this and this" .. I am not alone in how pissed off this has made people I am the one that spoke up though.I pay them 2 play this game.. and they tell me how it should be played ? no, I pay you... you make it how I want . I been playing for 4 years and I think they took a HUGE step back in user friendly ... people are leaving like rats on a sinking ship..if you think otherwise ... you are mistaken .. /rant off ... like I said ... flame all you want act like a 5 yr old calling names and acting like a$$hats I don't care
While I don't mind heroics being challenging, in my first heroic boss battle both I (a hunter) and the tank got one shotted by seeker mines. Now a dps getting insta-killed because he's not paying attention is ok. A tank getting insta-killed for the same reason is pushing it, but doable if it's easy enough to avoid. Needing to dodge a dozen floating crystal bombs? That's too much.It's possible that I (and the tank) simply had no idea what to do, but still.
for the a$$hat that is #$%^&ing about healers taking a MB after each pull... you are the one I let die cause you are the retard that stands in the "stupid" just 2 boost dps.. I have no problem at all letting you die. however long it takes before you start 2 move ...Healers are being put 2 the test in this and for anybody that thinks otherwise ... roll one and find outI for one DO think it is a bit 2 hard I play this for fun... not a headache and since I will not check post again... I will go all out.I hope they nerf them down and give the healers back some of the power we had before right now there is NO reason at all for me 2 be going OOM on fricking trash other than I have a titanic size hole in my mana pool... and yes, we CC crap.... I have parked my healer and actually stopped playing and I still read these things hoping I will see, "ok we changed this and this and this" .. I am not alone in how pissed off this has made people I am the one that spoke up though.I pay them 2 play this game.. and they tell me how it should be played ? no, I pay you... you make it how I want . I been playing for 4 years and I think they took a HUGE step back in user friendly ... people are leaving like rats on a sinking ship..if you think otherwise ... you are mistaken .. /rant off ... like I said ... flame all you want act like a 5 yr old calling names and acting like a$$hats I don't carelolumadbro?
The biggest problem I have with Heroics is that I can't get in, since Plate DPS gear never goddamn drops. :(And repfarming doesn't grant you much there.
I am a Druid tank. The first time i joined a heroic i was disapointed. I was in the minimum ilevel but i was doing fine with tanking. The instance was Lost City and there were 3 people from the same guild(from another realm). They were complaining because i was not moving the boss using the the path back to the entrance and i was moving it around the pillar. That moment i felt really bad and thought i was doing something wrong. But no, they were players that started playing before WotLK and they thought they are better than everyone else. They were going like "This is not WotLK, learn how to tank" or "You are crap go back to healing". I am playing since vanilla but i didn't say anything. These kind of people are the worse in the game. I prefer playing with a noob that is patient and will stay for 3-4 more tries in a boss rather than smartass that will leave in the first wipe.(That their fault probably caused). Heroics are just fine the way they are. I really enjoy doing 20-40min runs than the 10min WotLK ones. It's people that has to get used to it, both the old and the new players. Now that i am in 347 ilevel i still enjoy these runs cause they still seem challenging. They are not easy but they are not impossible too. For the first time people have to pay attention, follow the instructions, use their forgotten spells (see CC spells), and know what their job is.
Two things. First,I'm having one hell of a time trying to learn the General Hussam Lost City fight on heroic. I try my best to avoid the land mines, while dps-ing, while watching out for his aoe, only to eventually be picked up, and tossed into that pillar, where conveniently enough, 7 or 8 land mines are their waiting to melt my face. And is it just me, or do those land mines have an actual radius outside of the mine itself? Because, it seems even when I'm not standing on one, I'm still taking damage from one of them.THERE is your contructive feedback.And two, some people just don't have as much time to play WoW. Blizzard keeps demanding more and more of a player's time to improve their character(s) (which is a direct result of Blizz wanting you to play as long as you can to pay them as much money as you have), and some people simply have a hard time keeping up. After all, the best players either spend all their time on WoW, or are "just good that way" and are skilled enough to keep up, but it does stress some people. Bottom line is that you shouldn't flame someone for screaming its too hard and to put more time in when you havn't checked how much time they have usually to play, and that you should also take into consideration the things that Blizz asks of it's players.
The upcoming changes post that was reported on here in a different article made me laugh a little. Part of it basically said healing now works how they want it to, and healing in heroics works how it should, however you probably can't heal a heroic at the baseline ilvl to get into heroics. Really? So a healer can jump in line for a heroic at baseline ilvl, and then fail miserably. Ok, if you're not gonna make it a little easier on people why not just raise the baseline ilvl and force ppl to run regular 85s for a while? I don't want zerg-fest facerolls, I just want to be able to do things at the ilvl I should be able to do them. :P
I think that I'm making sure that I'm well-geared in dungeon drops and rep gear before I set foot in a heroic - and even then, I'll be running with my guild, not in PuGs.I remember the fun of running Shattered Halls heroic. I'm looking forward to similar challenges in Cata - but I'm darn sure going to be ready before I even try them.Brrr, Shattered Halls. Or more appropriately, Shadow Labs. D:
I am only responding to the question in the title:I am most greatful for Blizzard bringing back longer, harder and "epicless" HC dungeons. I can say they are more HC then they were in BC and this is a plus. Now I won't be sleeping and DPS-ing through the whole instance as a healer or won't be tanking them as a DPS. Thank You BLIZZ!
I've done plenty of heroics, and while we aren't quite in TBC heroic MgT territory, playing one of the two DPS classes without crowd control (DK or warrior) can often be a real drag. I've joined groups comprised of tank, non-shaman healer, DK, warrior, rogue. They had to kick a DPS, and I didn't blame them for it. Heck, I wouldn't blame them for kicking BOTH of us-- heroics can be significantly harder with only one CC.Learn to deal with it. If you guys can't do a dungeon with whatever the finder puts together for you, Bliz needs to fix something. They've repeatedly said they don't ever want to go back to the way it was when a certain class was absolutely NEEDED in order to get through an instance.IMHO, a bigger drag is having CC and having another idiot dps break it. In my personal experience, this is a DPS warrior more often than not. And since they don't have any CC as you say... makes it really hard to want to keep being in a group with a poorly played one.Also, paladin tank single-target threat needs to be significantly buffed. I pull aggro from paladins all the time.No. Not in the least bit. Warriors are single target threat masters. Paladins excel at AoE threat. Don't take the last good thing away from Prot Warriors. They've basically been chewed up and spit out since BC when Bliz thought it'd be a GREAT freaking idea to have paladins and druids actually be able to raid tank, but then giving warriors nothing to compensate so they could do something else competently. If you have a Paladin tank and if you're pulling aggro, learn to moderate your damage. Or the paladin tank could learn to get his threat rotation down better. Or he could remember to put on RF. Buffing paladin tanking is the wrong answer.
Wall o' text I did in fact read.First off, let me say that I agree with heroics being too long. Difficulty is fine in my opinion, just we don't need the same trash pack repeated dozens of times (20 in Grim Batol's case).Second; If the guild really does as you describe.... find a different guild! Join a social raiding (note I didn't say casual), which values RL just as much as WoW, and still make good progress raiding. They're rare, true, but they do exist, and outside of raid time we're all just a bunch of friends having fun.And guilds always have been powerful entities. There's nothing like the fear of being removed from a guild due to poor performance as an incentive to play better.Third: the amount of flaming you get depends on how you present your idea of 'Heroics are too hard'. Shuld u tiep liek dis, an sey heroicz r 2 hard, nurf plz blizz, you have no right to expect anything other then flaming.Should you present a well-reasoned argument, the chances of you getting flamed are lower (though still not non-existant =( ), however the number of posts you will receive that are well-typed, thought-out replies will be a lot larger.
You misunderstood me Shin.The 'fear of being removed from the guild' IS an incentive to play properly. Especially if it's a hardcore, but most notably a successful, guild like Method or Paragon. Social guilds do not necessarily NEED the fear of being removed from the guild on poor performance. There the presence of friends is enough to drive you to max performance (I know it is in my case anyway =p), as you don't want to let down those you consider friends right?
I've been in a few heroics, two failed more because we ran out of time and people had to go, but the ones I've finished weren't that hard. They took effort from everyone involved and that was it. Effort and perseverance. The more I run heroics, the more I come to the conclusion that the people crying hard for nerfs simply want to be carried or can't adjust to the changes.The only nerf I can see justifiable would be the first boss in SFK, making it less dependent on classes that can interrupt. You should not need three classes with a short interrupt cooldown. Bring the player, not the class, they say. I can see that argument, but heroics in general don't seem to be that bad.
Yes, the heroics are too long right now. Whether that will change with gear and experience remains to be seen.As for the guild "patch"... IMHO, this is one of the worst things to happen about WoW, unfortunately. There are lots of great things about it, but I don't think Bliz really thought it through. The biggest reason it's going to tear the game apart is exactly because it undermines the LFG tool. Very well said. They need to do SOMETHING. As dps, I was used to 10-20 min queues before Cata for a spot in a pug. Now? 45 mins, if I'm lucky. I think that's because of the new "guild group" functionality. Bliz is going to kill its playerbase with this. They need to fix it. And fast.
I myself have had a mixture of PuGs and and runs where at least 4 of us are guildies. The 5th spot either a dps or healer usually. i find that the competence of people, patience and real will to actually put effort into the game. the biggest problem i see is people. with so many people playing this game, it will be seemingly like all the people driving cars(and other vehicles for that matter). Some just shouldnt be allowed to be in the driver seat, but thats something that is very hard to regulate, particularly when the people are capable of so much more, but act like idiots anyway.
I'm a wrath baby. I admit it proudly. I hit level 85 with ease on both of my 80 toons. Got item level 329 and walked into a heroic.. and got 3 trash mobs in and had.to step away. Liste. Guys, this is fun. Luckily I am off spec tank and am now grinding some Rep for some decent heat. You can't walk into grim batik expecting utgarde keep difficulty. This stuff is amazingly fun. Besides getting Rep with these new factions is super easy and worth it. Not to mention I'm sure everyone could still use some regular dungeon gear.