I'm fairly new. I leveled my current Warrior to 68 with doing very few dungeons. But now, thanks to Dungeon Finder, I'm doing them a lot more. That also prompted me to re-spec and go Protection to tank. I'd have probably never done that before reaching 80 (or 85 now). Therefore with Dungeon Finder, I'm A) learning to play my roll before reaching 80 (tank) and B) doing a lot more dungeons that I wouldn't have otherwise. I sincerely think that's why Blizz came up with it in the first place. I give it a "A+". But yeah, I could do without the assclowns with no life that like to criticize everything - it's just a game people!
I like the dungeon finder concept for regular instances and leveling, however, for things such as endgame content and heroics, it's nearly impossible and you almost always end up getting "saved" to a fail group. On another note... something that has almost always bothered me about this dungeon finder, is that it takes away the in-game comradere (sp)? It used to be you had to find people on your server to group and run with... and thats how friendships were made, stronger guilds built... but now, no one knows anyone unless they knew them pre-dungeon finder. It's made players more smug and pretentious. They have a "holier than though" mentality because they think you suck, or vice versa.... and now its just a consistant trade chat troll fest, because no one has friends in-game anymore. My suggestion would be to keep it for leveling, and lower level regular dungeons, but I think that we need to bring back team work, and strategy building with people on our own servers... take away the dungeon finder for heroics IMO.
I just got kicked from a group for no reason at all that I know off. I made a toon on another server (3 people from same server, non guild) and asked them why with no response but an ignore for my trouble. Now I get to look forword to another hour waiting in que for my troubles, of which I dont even know if I did anything wrong. I did not break cc, I did not pull xtra mobs on accident. I was doing decent dps while trying to cc which the fail tank (who should have been kicked) was breaking cc. I think it gets abused more then not and something should be done about it for those who get kicked for no reason. I am sure there are people who should be kicked off WoW all together but waiting around for another hour after I just waited for an hour is very annoying.
I have red trough almost all the comments and i can see a similarity... Im a holy priest my self and i can say that my experience with Dungeon Finder is over all a pleseant experience. Sometimes you find yourselfs in an bad group and sometimes not. I havent played since vanilla and this is a big differnce for me. I remember when you had to post in the main channel "LFG" and hope that someone will se that... Almost every run ive done has been new for me. And when I ask politly how to do in different situations I get an answer 98% of the times. In general most people are kind. I think Dungeon Finder is a good tool! I really understand the frustration when you are queing as DPS for 30-60min. I hope bliz comes with a better solution for DPS ques. I wouldent mind queing a longer time.
I think that if blizz made players complete a maze or a word search as a prerequisite before every queue the quality of dungeons would go way up as the ignorant fools are weeded out. Maybe a mini game in which u have an X a circle and square and you have to drag and drop them to their respective holes.
My 1st and main is Mage .. so I know the hardship of dps Q .. ( 40m is norm now. ) I also play DK Tank, Priest Heal and leveling Pally Tank/Heal ... you might notice there's no other dps, yes Mage alone is enough trouble being dps.Blizz should give us an option something like (Profiling) .. e.g : idiot tank from this server and S-hole heal from that server are on my ban list, I won't be paired with them anymore ( I'd rather choose longer Q than meeting them again. ) I even made a couple of tickets to GM for reporting one troll, that guy Q as tank without wearing anything and wipe the group by pulling the mobs and drop dead ... after meeting him for the 3rd time .. I decided to take screen shots and report that to GM by opening a ticket. ( I have no idea this issue is ignored or not. )Anyway .. I'm still PUGGING because this is the only option for me to play this game. If I'm on tank/heal .. and the group is not bad .. I always offer them to do another run with them. This is how I show my thanks and appreciation for meeting good dpsers. If I'm on heal I always encourge dps to stay on party if the bad tank rage quit or kicked by me ... and always offer to help dps out ... by asking simple question like "more Q ?"4 days ago, I'm on my Pally tank .. found a perfect PUG, 5 people from 5 different servers. We all felt like .. this is once in a life time ... we run for about 15 or so .. instance runs continuously. I still have positive hope for LFD tools and cross server PUGs.
i do agree that dungoen finder is not the probem! the problem seem to be many think and or more than i put forth. player want to do thing so quick that if not skilled on a dungoen and your toon makes other mad, no patience. and courteos playing, not many seem to know how to. i love the game, but social etiquette there is a n achievement that blizz needs to work into the game, would be the hardest achievement for most to get. Point is your get farther faster if you help out others to help yourself out. and if you use dugoen finder and get a group dont be stupid and ask others in group to please leave so your friends and or guild members (witch is nice but wrongat the time)want to join in, you lock the dugeon of the person that you is ask to leave(and also waited thru dugeon finder)and now cant finish quest if app. and or rep with is more that case.
I like to compare Cata Heroics to raiding ToC10/25 in ICC gear with random unfiltered people from trade. The big issue I find is that a lot of people in LFG fail at Cataclysm 101, and this is the criteria I use to determine my participation in a run.For DPS:1. Deal at least 7k or you have no business being there. 9k is better2. Use and resepct CC and kill order3. Move out of fire and be able to deal with fight mechanics(If you're new, you need to learn after 0-2 wipes)For Tanks1. Have the gear needed to survive the content, and this means you Death Knights in full PvP gear2. Be able to maintain aggro, as its not as automatic as it was in Wrath, and be aware enough to pull mobs off of DPS/Healers when you lose it, and this means you Cat Druids who join as Bear for instant queue and have no real concept of how to tank3. Be able to pull with CC, either pulling mobs without breaking CC or to pick up mobs that the DPS pulls when they pull with CC4. Move out of fire and be able to deal with fight mechanicsFor HealersI'm the healer, so I have little experience with bad ones. The biggest problem I find in Cataclysm random heroics are people who fail at Cata 101, and if you get grouped with these people the run is not going to go well. I find myself adhering to a zero tolerance policy when it comes to this, and if I see a wipe caused by more than a mere mistake and instead a fundamental failure to handle Cataclysm mechanics, my participation in the dungeon ends right there. Heroics are now difficult enough that everybody needs to contribute and its not possible to carry people like before. Either you won't complete it or completing will take 2-3hrs. I find as a healer I can tell if a tank is worthwhile after 1-3 trash pulls, while DPS often takes wipes against a boss to really tell. If you have bad people, you can either get rid of them or exit the run somehow.
Sorry for the double post, but I have something different to add:I think some people have a different idea on what makes an enjoyable Heroic run. Take this example:I have done guild Heroic runs, runs with RL friends, and runs put together in trade chat. In these Heroic runs, we put together groups of people with capable tanks, everyone can manage fight mechanics and move out of fire, and use and respect CC and kill order. With a group like this, we can do a Heroic dungeon in 45min-1hr easy, with 0-2 wipes.After doing Heroic runs like this, its what I want, and I'm unhappy when random LFG gives me less.Now, I'm not what I would call an elitist, but I have some minimum standards. I get a nice seat to watch everyone as a healer, and I'm experienced enough to know the difference between a mistake and a failure to grasp standard tactics and mechanics on the Heroic level. A mistake I can live with, but a failure to grasp heroic difficultly will only continue throughout the entire dungeon, and I'm just not interested in dealing with that right now. At this point, I'm not interested in wiping 1-3 times per boss and taking 2+ hours to complete the dungeon. Now the thing is, I've been in Heroic runs that are comparable to my guild runs. I might even put the percentage as high as 50%. Its enough that I will still queue in randoms when nobody in my guild wants to join me. If I get paired with sub-par people able and willing to learn, I'll take them by the hand and we'll slog through. If I get a group where I'm looking at a 2-3hr wipe fest being the best case scenario, my participation in the run ends as soon as I realize this, and I'm not taking the deserter debuff.
My suggestion is RE: loot rolls in dungeon finder groups. The need before greed system is excellent so far as it goes but I would think it would be doable to prioritize the loot rolls based on your class and spec. That is, I think it is not acceptable for a dps to outroll a tank for a tank item... or a tank to outroll a dps class for a dps item. Healers and tanks in the present system are especially prone to abuse the system by Q'ing rapidly and then rolling on any dps items they please (they have less fear of being kicked... and if they are they can reQ all but instantly)To elaborate on my suggestion: everyone can still roll need if the item is usable for their class... but you can not be beaten on your need roll by a person who did not enter the instance as main spec for that item. I recognize there will still be items that can be used by more than one spec but certainly IMO the majority of drops will be possible to prioritize as primary for one spec
Sorry, but Blizzard's stance on spec having any preference on loot is, and always will be, that it is not a "rule" that they will ever enforce, either through action, or through game mechanics. All you can hope for is that you get a decent group in LFD, or just suck it up if you get your gear ganked.
as a healer I havne't kick any reasonable players at all. I did kick a few trolls who pull ahead of tanks, being totally rude. If a tank did that I stop heal, kick me and leave party. I don't care. I have however been kick accuse of being bad when I outright tell everyone I just came back form a 2month break and ask people to explain about each boss and what i should look for. most of the time I either get kick or tanks don't listen and pull. We wipe I was told I am a bad healer and got kick. Sorry but this game is way too immature for me. There is nothing you can do unless blizzard have GM monitioring randoms at ban those who are being rude and que for a role and refuse to be that role. Is not the game that sucks is the community as a whole. No matter how much blizzard try to make it better, you can't change the community.I just had one yesterday where after we wipe the tanks order the mage to CC pull as soon as the mage have aggro tank SUDDENLY went offline. HMMMMMMMM doesn't seem real to me
Sadly, the inherent anonymity the internet brings will continue to bring out the worst in some people.Can Blizzard do anything about it? Not without risk. People with the mindset to be abusive and obnoxious will only be curtailed through punishment, but Blizzard risks losing a customer if the punishment is too harsh. This has to be balanced against losing other customers if nothing is done to alleviate the situation.It is a lose/lose proposition for Blizzard, so the question becomes "which is the lesser of the two evils?". The obvious answer would be to lose the custom of the "bad" player since they really aren't the kind of people a business wants to have around as they try to maintain old players and entice new ones to join.The answer becomes simple: Engage in draconic action against the "bad" players. The application is where the trouble begins.How do you determine a "bad" player? Vote kick is abused to death making it unsuitable as a measure of "badness". GM's are already overworked, so adding more to their plate by having them investigate all reports of anti-social gaming behavior would grind the system to a halt and not accomplish anything. Even a rating system could easily be abused.There simply isn't an easy answer so leaving the group becomes your only viable response to these idiots and pre-forming groups to do randoms with becomes the only way to guarantee you'll never see people like this.
If anyone played pre-Dungeon Finder, you know it's epic win.
I love the dungeon finder. The end.Cheers.