Are their problems? Yes. Did the problems come with Dungeon Finder? No. Talk about Tyrannical Leaders, before this system was implemented there WAS NO VOTE KICK. That doesn't mean you couldn't kick someone out, that means that if a Tank, the leader, decided he wanted to roll DPS too he could kick the Fury Warrior and invite a Mage, and nobody could do anything about it. The leader was That Guy? Sucks for you, because he's the leader. You can't kick him out. I can't count the number of times I ended up Frost Shock tanking Gnomer on my Shaman.Really the only change here is that it requires three or more like-minded people for Those Guys to get their way.
That whole list of Classic PUG Problem Children. I tend to see at least 2 in each dungeon/heroic pug i get. :'(
Despite it's problems, the dungeon finder is imho one of the best features in the game, and I only wish it was extended to raids. Yes, you sometimes get bad luck, but more often than not, it works out, which is a lot more to be said for than pugs you put together when your friends aren't around from the trade channel. The key thing for me is that even well geared, experienced players are motivated to run one random per day, which means you're likely to end up with groups containing such people, and often that's enough to get the group through to the end.There are two features I would love to see:- Let you queue up a character you're not playing (limited to that same battlegroup or server). This way you can level up a character while waiting for your 85 dps to get into a heroic.- Have some extra motivation for people to run as tank or healer, based on the current shortage. If I get 70 valor for one run, but also another 70 valor for completing 5 total runs in a single day as either a healer or tank, a lot of healers and tanks might sign up for that.
I queued up as tank today (and did my work as tank). I ended up with some really nice players, strong healer and a dps group that actually knew how to let me pull and establish aggro before going all in. All in all it was a great group, skilled people and even a nice and friendly chat.After the final boss was down, someone asked if we should sign up for another run. One guy said he had to take a break and left the group. Another guy said he had to go too, but forgot to leave the group before going afk.We joined as a party, but our afk mate didn't accept his role as he was afk. After a long wait we got a message that someone timed out. We tried signing up again, and again it failed after a long wait for the afk guy to accept or decline. Then we tried to vote kick him, but couldn't as you can't kick a player once the instance is completed. We ended up chatting a bit more, and then leaving the group, which was quite a pity as I'll probably never end up in a group with them again..Overall I like the lfg tool and those disastrous groups have been few and far apart, but then again, really great groups are scarce too..
Well I believe people are having troubles in HCs because its more beneficial, you get 70 justice per boss and 70 valor for completing the dungeon! We're as for the normal modes, you get 75 for completing the dungeon only.....you know how long it'll take people to gear up via norm officially before heading to HC, agggess!I know coz I'm doing it like that since I have minimal time after work to do a dungeon and other stuff in game before sleeping lol......wish blizz gave 75 justice for completing the dungeon in normal mode then topped it off with say 30 pts of justice per boss, may speed up the players reaching raiding and rush blizz to release content quicker. But it'll make people more geared towards HCs alittle easier I say.....Think Blizz wants to drag out the length of time it takes really...
There needs to be a private personal opinion system that allows a player to look through a list of their most recently grouped-with players and increase or decrease their 'rating'. Rating in this context essentially translates to your willingness to play with that player again. This value would not be made publicly available to see. For example, no one would know that JoeWarrior has a average 3.5 rating with player's he's played with. This is important because you don't want to start a witch hunt of "must have 4.5+ rating to join" spams for groups. The way this could help the overall game experience is the DF tool could look at the player pool and make it less likely that you'll end up with players like the one you've had a poor experience with. For instance, if i were to rate a rude dps with a 1 and then person B thought he was hilarious and rated him with a 5, then that data could be used to group me with people that are less like what person B rated highly.This way, no one is just a representation of all the ratings given toward them. Instead, the the dungeon finder is just smarter in the way it groups people together, which is what we want.
To make PuGs better, Blizzard needs to implement a really rough death penalty. In Everquest, PuGs were (are) always enjoyable and professional because of the death penalty!
I didn't read through all 108 comments, so I'm not saying this hasn't been suggested earlier, but, I think Blizzard should prevent players from leaving group in the middle of combat, and if not that, then don't teleport them out of the dungeon. Too many times I've been running a heroic gotten to the first boss wiped because someone made a mistake and then the elitist tank decides he wants to prove his point that he is superior, by pulling the boss then bailing so the rest of the group is left to die, trapped within the boss's arena.Also, my input on the rating idea, allow players the option to rate others into rankings like "Elitist" "Troll" "Just needs a chance" "Casual" "Afker" or whatever you want to call it but that's the general idea, that way all the elitists can go tell all of the other elitists that they are wrong, the trolls can troll each other, and the afkers can watch the longest movies ever together, and everyone else can have fun actually playing the game. Of course to prevent one person from being put into the wrong group you would have to go based off of several ratings rather than trusting one person was properly rated, and ratings from trolls probably shouldn't be considered.That's all I have to add, hope Blizzard at least attempts to fix it. ^^
Overall I like the lfg tool and those disastrous groups have been few and far apart, but then again, really great groups are scarce too..ya i had some ok groups for a while but lately its been nothing but fail.sucks because i still need the gear from heroics
LFG is the best thing to happen to this game, period. I have many friends that I've been playing with for years, but sitting around waiting for them to be online at the same time was frustrating. Even more, I hated constantly bothering my friends who had tank characters, and they got tired of being hammered with whispers.Honestly, the number of bad encounters I've had in LFG is pretty minimal. Nothing of consequence even comes to mind. While there are certainly bad players out there, those players will be the ones getting vote kicked constantly, to the point of leaving the game or being forced to l2p.
And also i noticed a few people say, hey this is a guild run and we get to say whatever we want, and if a certain item comes up we get first choice. How is this fair to all that are running with this guild run but one extra that isn't part of the guild? I tell you what, if my GM caught any of his guild members acting like that it would be a guaranteed gkick. We usually have enough members on to run a couple 5 man groups at a time, but occasionally we have to pug in a dps. When that pug is with us they have EXACTLY the same rights to rolls and basic respect as anybody else.I'm always amazed when I hear about people pulling this crap. It's like folks wake up in the morning looking for new ways to be entitled #$%^&*!s.
I think some people were coddled by the Wrath heroics a bit too much, so they got used to doing things a particular way. Now that things have gotten tougher and it's actually harder to find people with the right gear levels and personal experience, they're getting pissed off.I haven't found people abusing the system or #$%^&ing much, but just today I played with a tank who wasn't getting the idea of CC through his head. We talked it over, planned out the CC as a group, marked our targets, got set to trap and sheep and... the tank charges into the whole group. Great, another skin-of-our-teeth trash pull.Things will get better, I'm sure of that. For a little while, though, things in the Dungeon Finder will be kind of crappy, as the pool of players available has not quite filled out with the nicer, more understanding and better-skilled players who took their time to learn a thing or two before getting their gear up to speed.As for improvements, there's really not much else to be done. Any system of automated punishments or player ratings or whatever carries with it the potential for griefing and abuse, as well. It really comes down to the players themselves and how much crap they're willing to tolerate from a "nightmare PUG" before they vote to kick people or leave themselves.EDIT: seeing some of the other comments here, since when did a couple group members in the same guild own a random group? The only time I could accept throwing guild rules into a random is when the entire group is comprised of guild members: if even 1 player was PUG'd, it's the same as if you all queued alone. That's the only fair option, IMO.
In a few years we should add up all the 30 minute lockouts we got blessed with. Consider what you could have done to "that noob" to have to spend this time in prison.There should be a statistic to measure total time on "dungeon deserter". And achievements!
I've seen these mistakes occurring countless times, over and over, so despite the risk of being "OT", I'd like to stress that:1. "it's" is different from "its"2. "their" is different from "there"3. "your" is different from "your're"4. "could've" is different from "could of" (the latter does not exist at all)I don't want to lecture, still I'm pretty tired of how grammar is loosely "interpreted" (or should I write "grammer"?...)
I would just like to add my feedback as I've recently had some poor experiences. This is to the point that I won't random dungeon unless I'm now in a Guild group and quite frankly, I haven't utilised the LFG Finder since Cata's first couple of days for the following reasons:- I was on an alt, in The Nexus (racing for 80 lol) and the Tank literally held us to ransom! Calling all us DPS fing useless, &^%@E$& all over the place. We kicked him but the Finder requeued him back in with us! It was 20 mins of hell and we all just bailed. The whole 'If you ain't fing going to do your job, I won't do mine', sitting fair on his backside refusing to tank. It was shocking and all it did was waste 40 mins of people's time and make 4 people feel really bad about themselves.- Battlegrounds - oh where to start! Report AFK just doesn't work - same bads just keep coming back. Oh and today, some loser telling the rest of us that our 'pathetic Relentless Gear was &*($(^# and was like, you know, 2000 years old' (nevermind that the game, let alone the new season, has only been out for 3 weeks).... To solve this one, Rated Battlegrounds should be able to be pugged. Pre mades is great for PvP Guilds et al but to get these losers out of non-rated battlegrounds and let them /flex, Rated Battlegrounds needs to be more open. As a Guildy said to me today, there's a reason why they aren't in Rated BG's - because no one wants to run with them - but why punish the rest of us with their ego? Let them do as they please and see where they really sit in the world... :)- I ran a Cata dungeon (normal as I only have an ilvl of 309) and I was verbally abused - quote - 'And look at this loser of a Druid who still thinks WotLK epics are awesome!' Of course I told him to bugger off - while he might be proud of his quest greens, I like to be a little more cautious and am not so quick to toss my ICC 25 HM Epics unless the upgrade is a true benefit. Was I bad in my role? No. Did I not perform due to my crap WotLK epics? No. Did I leave that Dungeon feeling miserable and vowing not to random again any time soon? Yep. Sure, some might say they are right to comment on my gear. Some may say I should get thicker skin but I say this - if you're paying for a hobby, a past time that is meant to give you enjoyment and has in the past, why should this kind of behaviour be tolerated? I'm lucky I'm an adult and can let most of these comments roll off my back (although some, I tell you were nasty and made me switch the game off). But with online bullying becoming such an issues, what about the kids who don't have the ability to give as good as they get? Or even if they do, walk away feeling less of themselves? There must be a way to deal with this. Why can't there be a Report Bad option that sends the chat and timestamps etc to Blizzard and lets them check it out.e*sigh* I dunno.... :\\Edit - I'd like to add I'm a firm believer in hard yards, time, effort, patience and perserverance in this game. I don't expect to be fully geared in 3 weeks. Hell, I don't expect it in 6 months. I'm happy to try and try again and save up for my points to buy gear and head into the next area. I'm a major fan of logical progression which is something I think WotLK lacked in the end. Why, though, is it so hard for these bads to not understand this concept? I need to upgrade my PvP gear - I run BG's to get points - I spend points on gear - I go on to BG again. Can they not see that when they whinge about people's gear, they forget, where does this come from? Gear Fairy? Not the AH I hope (because seeing a toon in all epic BoE's makes me scared).... As someone mentioned earlier, they are looking at other games because, as an adult, they won't complain about something but do nothing to change it. I must say, I'm the same. I'm adjusting my game play at the moment but if the overall atmosphere doesn't improve, well, my relationship with Blizzard may start to lessen in coming months. If they won't fix it, that's ok - but as an adult, I'll spend my time on things that make me feel good at the end of it.
I've stopped doing HCs since BoTW is easier, you can get HCs done when you have raid and exalted gear+enchants. 344 Ilevel just doesn't cut it, tanks take so much irregular dmg that you are oom when boss is still at 40%, besides people are more rude than ever in PUGs, they have 0 tolerance, if there's a wipe at least 1 person is kicked or leaves
While I haven't had to deal with people queuing as tank/healer who can't actually do it (I'm a healer, I queue with a guild tank, problem solved), if you come across someone outright refusing to perform the role they queued for, report them. It pretty clearly falls under Blizz's definition of Abuse of Game Mechanics:This category includes using/distributing game mechanics in a manner unintended by their design that:
I think the report option would leave the game with 100.000 players or less :P, it's a possible idea in certain cases
Had a group last night, we get in and straight away someone wants a pee break. So a dialog has just appeared asking them if they're ready to go do a dungeon and they've thought to themselves "Nope, I need to go pee" but they've clicked "Ready" and then asked for a pee break.This is very selfish. When you do this you waste four other people's time for no reason.But the reality is that this selfishness isn't just a property of WoW LFG. It's a real life problem. Everybody thinks they're special. Their time is valuable, their priorities are important, their skills are valuable, their values override other people's needs. They are wrong.So, next time that dialog pops up, ask yourself - am I actually ready? Or do I need to go get something out of the oven, feed the baby, take a leak, collect my kids from school, etc. When you queue, check that clock. 20 minutes until dinner time? Then you're not going to get a Cata HC done, are you? So why queue and annoy other people? Type /quit and go do something else for 20 minutes.Yeah, I've had a few of the other stupid things as well. I had a LFG group once where I was DPS fifth man to a group of 4 who wanted to do Watch Him Die. We clearly didn't have the damage output to get it done fast, and after one go, it was obvious the tank+healer combo wasn't holding up for long enough to make it happen. But since I only played one 80 at that point I didn't want to drop group, and we wiped six more times before they decided that I (with a mere 8-9k dps) was the problem and kicked me. What's the chance they ever found someone who could make it happen?I also (and again fortunately I already had the achi or I'd have been annoyed) got to see a group where someone did the "I didn't read that, but I'll say I understood so we can get on with it" thing in Zombiefest. They then ignored the cries of "Stop DPS!" "Stop all DPS!" too. Special orders seem to be a problem in general actually. I recommend that if doing an achi run with people you aren't 100% sure get it, you ask them to explain back to you what their job is. If they seem to be in too much of a hurry to do that, and just start writing "gogogogo" you're probably better off without their "help".Yes, even for the timed achievements. Being in a hurry is not the same as fast. I have done old-fashioned Baron runs (back at the 60 cap) with people who weren't hurried. But they understood what they needed to do, and didn't disconnect "Sorry, gtg". mid-way through. Less haste, more speed (or, perhaps mastery or some stat that's better for you than haste)
Disclaimer: This post sounds biased towards DPS, which, in a way, it is. If you have a problem with these kinds of posts, then skip it. I understand that there are about a jillion more DPS than tanks and healers in this game and that the world desperately needs more tanks, but that's not what the post is about.I believe the Dungeon Finder is an excellent tool, particularly for lowbie dungeons that would not normally be done otherwise, particularly some of the ones like Scholomance that I never even got to do when I leveled my toons through those areas. However, in terms of anything above Outlands instances I feel that for a DPS queue, the risk of a bad group is far, far too high for the reward involved.I know, it sounds strange, but let me clarify a bit: DPS queues in regular dungeons up to about...level 70 range from 5-15 minutes, which is reasonable; if your group falls apart for whatever reason be it your fault or someone elses', you can re-queue and have another group in yet another 5-15 minutes. So, let's call this 10-30 minutes for a successful (clears everything) group. Once you hit 70, and as you work your way up the ladder, queue times increase to a minimum of 15 minutes, to at times 25. But, here's my issue with the dungeon queue: as you level up, the amount of groups that fail or fall apart does not decrease. This is extremely important because it's one of the main downfalls of the Dungeon queue in my opinion. Before, where the DPS would need to wait 10-30 minutes for a group, he now has to wait 30-50 minutes if he gets lucky. And, as you hit 85 and do heroics, that queue time turns into a whopping 40 minutes! And that's only if they get lucky with a group that doesn't fall apart! Now yes, while the argument is there that you can do dailies/level stuffs in the meantime it goes without saying that at 85, if you have all the rep factions either exalted or close enough to it, there's no real need to do dailies aside from cash if you're particularly strapped for it, and while some people do have time to do the actual heroic, they may not have time to sit in the queue, or have enough guildies online to PuG properly.I believe this issue could be remedied with a "point" system of sorts, a number generated and influenced much in the same way that an good karma/bad karma system works. You'd get good karma for completing instances entirely, bad karma if you left (i.e. got the Dungeon Deserter debuff; leaving a group where you didn't get debuffed wouldn't count), and you would be paired with people who have a like "karma" rating. I feel this sort of system would work because of the following:- It would not be based on performance within the dungeon, which, as we can all attest to, is pretty much un-quantifiable considering you simply can't judge performance based on a DPS or HPS meter.- It would be entirely character based, not group based. A group would be formed amongst people of like karma levels, but your karma would not be impacted or affected by the actions of other people in your group (unless you choose to leave, of course).Tl;dr: Dungeon finder's fine for tanks and healers, but punishes both good and bad DPS because on a whole, the number of fail groups that are formed doesn't decrease as you level up causing gearing issues at max level, and general frustration below that.