I haven't run Cataclysm heroics yet, I am almost 85 but they scenario in normals is much better than it was in Wrath Heroics but I have a large amount of dread for the new heroics because all I have heard have been horror stories.I know that the bad players or the trolls can DESTROY a group and even the "silent but steady" instances aren't enjoyable, they just get the job done which is better than nothing. I would love to see some way to acknowledge how people act in an instance...Surveys or ratings or SOMETHING that would allow us to say just how bad ((or how GOOD)) someone is to have in a party.PS. I had a shaman once who queued as a healer but insisted that he could tank better than me in Wailing Caverns and wiped our group because he refused to do what he signed up to do and wanted to do my job instead....
This is something that I've been saying ever since I heard that the 'challenge' level was going to increase with Cata. In fact, it was reason enough for me to not even purchase the expansion and it's posts / blogs / reports like these that confirm many beliefs. I play this game for the enjoyment, and perhaps the 'elitist' in me doesn't want to deal with people who are just plain clueless (like Blood DKs that use Blood Strike, or Arcane Mages who spam Frostbolt). I've played since Jan., '05, I've seen the games at it's best, but since Cata I've seen myself saying more and more, "this game would be great if it wasn't for the people." This statement holds true with many low level instances, as well.Let's face it, the game has catered to the weak for a long time. With BC and LK, gear was handed out like hot cakes. The content allowed people to be horrific at their respective classes, but still succeed due to the 'carry-effect.' When it was announced that Cata was going to go back to the concept of strategy, teamwork, and ability, I celebrated the change but instinctively knew that the player base was not going to be able to handle it.It is precisely this reason as to why the content will eventually be nerfed back down to AoE tanking. It's in the companies best interest to keep everyone happy (ie. everyone paying); therefore, things will become easier and gear will become more obtainable. Skilled players don't want to be dragged down (any more than they already are) and weak players want to look good on meters, damage, item level, or otherwise (because that's what's important now, apparently).There would be less complaining (as it will never be eliminated) if things were reverted back to the way they were. And, that is a sad state of affairs for the game.
I play casually, and I don't queue often, but when I do it's just to get some better gear or achievements. I'll admit... I'm not the best DPS. I try to be good, but I fear that I'll get laughed at or kicked because I'm bad. Hasn't happened yet, though.With that said, it is kind of nice to know that there's worse out there. At least I try.Just last week, I waited a long time in the queue and finally got into a group for Stratholme. We all got ready to go, except our tank was lingering behind... He refused to tank, because he said he absolutely hated tanking Stratholme. He wouldn't leave either, because he wanted to immediately queue up again without penalty. And yet, we couldn't kick him, there was still 13 minutes before we could do that. It took a long time to get him to just leave, and even longer to find a new tank.Honestly, it's just appalling that people think so highly of themselves. If they don't like the group, why not just leave instead of complaining about everything? Blizzard shouldn't HAVE to deal with these problems, because it's the player's fault.
Fail:Long queues1) Group doesn't get past first boss in 1 or 2 tries and disbands (blaming tank or healer)or2) Nobody uses CC, group wipes on first trash, group disbandsAnd yes, ppl in HC PUGs are usually hostile
"What should Blizzard do?"Make the ignore file for players bigger. Give the player the ability to add players from the last instance with a point and click.I've seen fail-tanks quit a hard instance at start, leaving us high and dry, and no way to retrieve the idiots name to put it on the /ignore ( don't ever queue with this guy ) list./ignore is the best tool for dealing with morons. Once on the list, you cannot be queued with them.
My thoughts on a few ways to "fix" some of the problems with the dungeon que.1. The RDF(Random Dungeon Finder) should look at the 2 specs of the tank and see if 1 of them is a tank spec. If it has a tank spec let him que for Tank2. Same as above with healer RDF looks for healing spec.3 try and at least match a little gear in the bags with gear that class would use. (AKA. No hunters with cloth or leather and no Mail with Int and spirit.)
If Blizzard can find a way of not putting me with a hunter who has Aspect of the Daze on through the whole dungeon, I'd be happy.
My experience with the dungeon finder has varied from appalling to amazing, and this is true from level 15 to 85. Sometimes everyone knows how to play their characters and roles, even if they dungeon and fight mechanics aren't familiar to them. Sometimes people are new to their roles (especially new tanks or healers) but are otherwise familiar with the dungeons. Sometimes both facets are new. If the overall group is willing to work together and communicate, it will go well. Going through the dungeon finder in the new Cat dungeons was amazing, because the content was new enough that everyone worked together. However as the weeks go by, you are starting to get a divide so that you get some people who know the content and don't want to teach other players, and players who are just coming back to the game and trying out the new content.There are many, many problems I've come across through the dungeon finder, but there are no easy solutions to any of it. Anything which can be used to penalise a bad player could just as easily be used to unfairly punish a good player. What would be nice would be a rated system for the dungeon finder, as you have for arena and battlegrounds. That way you have the choice to queue with people of a similar skill level, or just go into the regular, unrated queue and play with people of all skill levels.
All I ever do is solo queue, and the VAST majority of my PuG's have been excellent. People who complain usually can't carry their own weight, in my experience.
Overall I think the Dungeon Finder has been phenomenal. The bad groups have been pretty rare.I don't think there is any way to eliminate bad groups because there are always people who will be ^&*!s.What they should try to do is increase the negative feedback to the ^&*!s. Ignoring people only goes so far with cross realm dungeons.If you leave a group or kick a player there should be some way to flag it for review so some low level CS person can send a warning and maybe ban the guy from the dungeon finder for a few days.
As a newer WoW player, I have had both awesome and utterly terrible groups using the Dungeon Finder.I've found that people just aren't willing to take the time to answer some (probably obvious) questions - but will be more than willing to jump down your throat if you do something wrong.My most enjoyable dungeon experience had nothing to do with the actual content, but the fact that people in the group answered my questions - advised me what would be best loot for my class and were totally understanding that I'm new, I'm going to occasionally do something stupid. With their help I managed not to die, felt like a team player and was more than happy with the whole experience.The worst time I had was when I died and rather than rez me (yes, I asked nicely!) they left my body and moved on. I'd never been in that dungeon before - I got totally lost, ended up stuck on the other side of a gate from my group - I could see them, I was even getting XP, but I couldn't get through to help. Really soured my game, especially when being trashed in chat. I understand that sometimes rezing takes too much mana/time ect, but I felt completely useless - no one enjoys that.
Sometimes, if not most times, peoples mood is a direct reflection of yours. So if people complain about angry people everywhere, they should take a look at themselves in the mirror. But who is going to do that? Its always the other guys fault.
The other day I got kicked from a heroic BRC run for no apparent reason. A guildie also in the run with me told me that the reason typed into the vote to kick box just said "Idiot."Yeah... I was following the boss mechanics exactly, doing the most dps, and CCing what needed to be CCed. Maybe they were pissed I passed on the winter hat...
Dps are afk isnt a really big problem and players shouldnt be punished for hour long queues or more because, maybe they are eating now, talking to roommates in the other room for a bit, taking a break, using the bathroom, or god forbid any other human activities to keep them entertained while they wait forever just to dungeon. You want another dps? Fine. Wait another 4 seconds to get one. Don't penalize other people for being people.If it's a tank or a healer, I'm not sure why a tank would be afk, they literally just queued. As for a healer almost the same thing. Maybe a solution would be to treat each role differently for afk's. Because the dps wait? No one that can tank queues as dps for a reason.
It's horrible that people CANNOT wrap their heads around the fact that CC is a REQUIREMENT now in some pulls. They refuse to do it or the tank just runs headlong into everything and wonders why they get insta-gibbed and then want to $%^&* at the Healer (usually me) as to why I didn't heal them or why I went oom in less than 20 secs because I'm using my fastest and (most expensive) heals to keep them alive through the slaughterfest that's going on. Lemme not even get on tanks who refuse to use their OWN cooldowns on fights. They refuse to trinket, use Shield wall, Divine Protection. Nothing. You DK's that don't use your Bone Shield or D&D and then wonder why stuff goes everywhere? Looking at you too. Worse yet you're clad in GREENS and you want to tank 4 mobs at once because 'CC is taking too long.' I am not healing you. Bubble and hearth, leave group. Same goes for DPS who time and time again: stand. in. the. fire.As a healer who honestly loves his job and I really do. I like healing. I like being a cornerstone and watching the group succeed and push through...the few groups that I get that this crap happens gets me so dejected so quickly and I just want to stop playing rather than risk another horrible PuG that does this every time. As a 90% of-the-time healer, it really breaks your spirit fast. I mean really: a Lock who doesn't use banish and forgets he has a Succy and a mage that won't sheep and keep something sheeped because-and I *!@#e thee not and from Mal'ganis no less-"It'll lower my DPS." I hate MG server with such a burning passion...Morons. Morons everywhere with FEW exceptions.Guess what? As a healer I don't give a flying rat's anal cavity about your DPS. As long as stuff dies quickly, crap stays off me, I'm able to heal the tank without oom'ing and idiots don't stand in fire/traps/storms - that's all that worries me. Worry about your DPS in fight, when stuff is CC'd and your tank is able to control what's in front of him/her. This is NOT WoTLK ffs. Stop acting like it is. Get out of that mentality and stop passing the blame when you refuse to watch ONE video/read ONE boss fight posted here on wonderful WoWhead and then want to scream like a 3 year old when wipes happen and you ragequit group because you're too lazy to CC and want lewtznaow. Wowhead's here for a reason. Come on people. Read and learn.
I have noticed one thing. Usually, in any lvl 80+ dungeon, things usually go smoother when no one says anything. Of course, if there is someone that is playing terribly things can get ugly. Just something to think about.
I've seen a lot of fails at every level of content so far (Minus the 81+ instances, I've only had good things in them so far, for the three I've been in as Deeps).First thing Blizzard could do is; Check the friggen Specs and the Gear. Please! I'm sick of seeing Retadin/Healadins or Boomkin/Restos queuing as Tanks. I'm sick of seeing Enh Shammies in Agi gear claiming they can heal!I've had a Boomkin get into an instance as a tank just to 'shorten the wait', never mind no one else in the group could /possibly/ be a tank.And the other day, I got into a Heroic Halls of Reflection as a tank, where the 'Healer' was an enhancement shammy. I had 4 times more HP than he had mana! Could we kick him? No, no we couldn't, and I'm not gonna take a 30 minute 'Sorry, but you ran away!' penalty just because someone doesn't know what they're doing. You shouldn't be able to queue as a spec you're not! Priests can't queue for Tanking, why should Resto Druids?
thats one of the better ideas for the dfinder system problem is how do you make the scoring fair? your always goin to have ppl who under/over score for what ever reason
"don't deal with it - try to kick the offending player(s) if possible, and if not - don't waste your time on trolls: leave the group."this would be a great idea if you didn't get penalized and a deserter debuff for 30 min after you left? or when people leave over the most ridiculous crap. people die once and leave or don't get the loot they want and leave. i mean really this system is flawed, they should make it so at the end of each dungeon you fairly rate each person in the group and you are grouped with people about your rating. or some sort of system based on performance...force the elitists to deal with each other and let the normal people enjoy the game ect... okay my rant is done sorry >.<that would work really well, except for the people who would give nasty 'reviews' for the hell of it or just don't care enough to rate properly. if it could be made to work though it would be fantasticAlso, i am not a new player, but only in the last few months have i actually been doing dungeons and raids, i try to let people know if i haven't done something before so that any important points can be told to me. i don't need to be told every second of a fight and after 4 years of playing i'm pretty sure i know how to stay out of the burny stuff. i'm not 2, i just am not a hard-core, elitist jerk-off. (sorry bout the language, just the nicest word i could think of for them) i just want to play the game, but i am also a mother, and yes, sometimes my kids do something that needs my attention. i am always as quick as possible. people need to remember that this is a game, yes, but unlike most games, there are actually real people on the other end of those characters. we have lives and feelings and problems of our own (which we may be trying to forget about for 5 stinking minutes). I always try to show the respect for people that i would like, but it's sad how little respect is ever given back, especially in Random runs. ok....lol, that was longer than i intended. Laters
#Queuing For Queue's Sake: LOL I QUEUED AS A TANK OR A HEALER BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY PLAN ON DOING MY ROLE AND I'M JUST GOING TO STAND HERE LIKE AN IDIOT AND HOPE SOMEONE ELSE CAN DO MY JOB FOR ME LOLOLOL#I'm In A BG/Questing/AFKing: Oh, my queue popped, but I'm AFK watching the longest movie ever so I can't waste my time by dropping my queue or actually leaving the group I joined instead of making you wait to kick meMost common I've seen. AFKing makes me mad the most, especially when you need to do runs on your DPS. waiting for 20mins only to have so other DPS afk, again and again. and finally to get in and find the group horribly sucks a**. and one of those types of problem children falls on one or two of the members.