E: Aestu, if you think he's so inept, why not try to do the job yourself? Just work for the credentials and apply.You don't pick up the chef's hat just because the food isn't as good as it could be, and you don't run for President just because you think Bush or Obama or Clinton or anyone else are incompetent. Merely because someone has been appointed to a given station doesn't mean they are equal to what is asked of them. By the same token, merely because someone has insight into a complicated problem doesn't mean it's appropriate to appoint them. Forums exist for everyone to give their two cents. The value of said forums is manifest when others choose to profit from those two cents, or whether some sort of consensus emerges from many individuals reading what everyone else has said and thinking about it as individuals. Working for a company that makes a game that I enjoy is not on my life agenda.
Vengeance doesn't correct the issues you describe. How does Vengeance help tanks pick up mobs?Better gear = more survivability / higher AP cap = more damage = more threat? Or are you talking about pulling mobs?That was the issue you described, was it not?How does Vengeance address the overzealousness of some DPS or the slow reaction time of some tanks? How does Vengeance make players less lazy?These are player issues. You can't possibly expect Vengeance to "deal" with the problems that lies entirely with the players.Alright. Then how can you say Ghostcrawler understands playerbase issues if what he has to say and what he does about them aren't relevant to the issue - Vengeance wasn't necessary or appropriate?
That was the issue you described, was it not?... yes? You did ask how Vengeance help "pick up mobs", and I'm answering based on my interpretation of what "pick up mobs" mean.Alright. Then how can you say Ghostcrawler understands playerbase issues if what he has to say and what he does about them aren't relevant to the issue - Vengeance wasn't necessary or appropriate?From what I can understand, the summary of GC post is: "we need to strike a balance in threat generation". And then he proceeds to list things that would indicate what problems in threat management that would be of interest to developers (i.e., things that Blizzard needs to fix, in contrast to what the players should do). I don't know who said Vengeance isn't necessary or appropriate. How that infers the lack of knowledge of playerbase?
Aestu, I never specifically addressed Vengeance myself because I am not very familiar with it and it would be stupid of me to try to debate something I have no personal experience with. The thrust of my post was that I felt that GC at least sounded like he understood the philosophy behind how tanking, dps, and healing should work... my main beef is that WotLK ruined players and gave us new bad ones because it was an AOE fest with not a whole lot of skill needed at all.So, I was discussing philosophy and not so much mechanics. Like I said, I haven't tanked since BC BT because I got totally burned out on the raid tanking thing. But the basic philosophy of Cata seems to be going back to the way it was pre-WotLK and that I DO know about... that philosophy being waiting for the tank to get threat, DPS not pulling the trigger so fast, tanks actually moving and tab-sundering or whatever they have to do to keep threat, healers deciding where their mana is best spent, etc.When I stopped playing my raid tank, I was frustrated with the warrior class. This was before dual spec was affordable or the norm. So, I was heavily prot specced and while I could tank very well with the tools I was given, trying to do daily quests or anything else was slow and painful, even if I wore the DPS gear that I got as cast offs in raids where no one else wanted or needed the stuff. But, at that point, threat generation was not a problem. It never was for me. It was solved by Devastate adding threat (I think it no longer does, shame), and by Thunderclap also generating extra threat. And then there was the new Prot talent (shockwave?) that made Warrior threat even better. But, it still wasn't PaladinAOEloltanking. So, while I was satisfied and happy with at least how my warrior tanked, it seemed that others weren't because they wanted AOEloltanking, something warriors just don't excel at.Anyway, tangent. I honestly don't see why Bliz screwed with threat generation in the first place. It was fine back in BC, at least for warriors who didn't have lazy dps that wanted AOEloltanking, but I guess it just didn't scale well?Right now, anyway, pre-raid, warriors seem to be doing okay at least from a dps and heals point of view. Paladins are good if not played by an idiot. And I think bear tanks are really suffering the most right now... but maybe I've just gotten bad bear tanks in my groups. No experience since Cata with DK tanks.I do kind of long for the days when threat was kind of easy. TC. Devastate. Tab, devastate. Tab, devastate. Shout. Shield slam when up, or timed to interrupt spellcasts. Block when up. Wash, rinse, repeat. Playing a warrior back then was fun... back before they made bears and paladins able to tank better with bigger groups of mobs.
Aetsu, I'm pretty sure there have been Blue Posts in the past (From GC himself, I believe) that have stated that Vengeance is more of a Raid ability than a 5 Man ability. That's to say that, you'll get (And see) the most benefit out of it in Raids, while in 5 Mans and such, you won't see quite as much a benefit... You might in Heroics, if the fights go on long enough.
I'm loving this.In short - what I want is a list of targets and some flashing red light that warns me I got a lose one. Then shame on me if I can't get to it or find the right taunt/range attack weapon. Not sure if it is DBM or the game interface but I LOVE the "losing threat" warning I get when tanking multiple MOBS. Just want that at the start so I know the lose ones I have NO threat on and which will go awandering as soon as the clothies breath on em.Feh. Totally not needed. When I tanked, I was not only watching my cooldowns/rotation, but I also looked at the other mobs and watched the health bars of the other party members (non-raid, of course). And when one got loose, even if was the DPS's fault (everyone makes the occasional mistake), I did something revolutionary: if the DPS didn't bring the mob to me (which they SHOULD do), I would sometimes, depending on the situation, go and get it. It's amazing to me how many tanks don't watch the health and mana bars of the other people in the party and how they just freaking STAND IN ONE PLACE. Just because you're tanking doesn't mean your feet are nailed to the floor or you can't pay attention to the group. IT'S YOUR JOB. Don't pull if the healer is drinking or doesn't have mana. If the healer is losing HP, don't just freaking stand there, go get the darned mob or at least move to meet them halfway as they should be moving to bring the mob to you.This is all possible without some interface enhancement holding your hand.You kinda have a reading comprehension problem don't you?. OF COURSE it isn't a problem to notice their health declining - even a little bit. I am completely fine with picking them up if the clothie can survive 4-6 seconds (You just keybind to target the target hitting them) and then hit your taunt. The problem is the 1-2 second death-to-clothies that most humans do not have adequate reaction for (and remember, WOW itself has a lag due to the transfer back and forth of various packets and reaction to your commands). By the time their health bar is declining they are already dead. What is needed, if you read my post, is something that tells you the MOB is GOING for them - allow you to react to it PRIOR to touching the squishy clothie who will yell at the PUG tank if they get their clothes dusted up. And note - while you don't want to stand in one place, other PUG DPS will yell if the mobs are not faced away from them and kept in one spot because they are compensating (you know what I mean) for other inadequacies by watching their DPS numbers. So proper PUG tanking involves keeping MOBS grouped together in one spot while long casting AOE burns them, faced AWAY from the raid so the huntards/DPS meleee can see their numbers climb, and a thick skin for all the abuse you take from DPS that is doing little to help the tank be more effective. Seriously, last night I got yelled at from the DK who whispered, and I quote, "In case you don't know if you keep them in one spot for longer I will get my DPS up. Your &*!@ty tanking is costing me a higher place on the DPS chart"
You kinda have a reading comprehension problem don't you?.No, but you apparently have an attitude problem which urges me to ignore anything else you post as drivel.
I DK tank all I ask is for THREE GCD'S 3 SECONDS, 1:DnD 2:Icy Touch 3: Pestilence by that time my threat is suffiecnent and you can let loose I can keep aggro from thereMy pally friend said all I need is 3 gcd's but targe his initial sheild of the ritious targetmy warrior friend also said 3 gcd's is enoughSO just count 1... 2... 3... NUKE. and your goodthe number of times ive counted to myself 1...2...3...4...5 and started blasting away with whatever i have and being the last dps alive...ya counting is smart of a dps at any level and to have a group with 3 smart dps and a good healer makes a tank cry in joy...then some big corehound growls and he remembers what hes suppose to be doing and gets back to tanking.
Merely because someone has been appointed to a given station doesn't mean they are equal to what is asked of them. By the same token, merely because someone has insight into a complicated problem doesn't mean it's appropriate to appoint them. Haha, I never implied that part.