Aestu, I never specifically addressed Vengeance myself because I am not very familiar with it and it would be stupid of me to try to debate something I have no personal experience with. The thrust of my post was that I felt that GC at least sounded like he understood the philosophy behind how tanking, dps, and healing should work... my main beef is that WotLK ruined players and gave us new bad ones because it was an AOE fest with not a whole lot of skill needed at all.So, I was discussing philosophy and not so much mechanics. Like I said, I haven't tanked since BC BT because I got totally burned out on the raid tanking thing. But the basic philosophy of Cata seems to be going back to the way it was pre-WotLK and that I DO know about... that philosophy being waiting for the tank to get threat, DPS not pulling the trigger so fast, tanks actually moving and tab-sundering or whatever they have to do to keep threat, healers deciding where their mana is best spent, etc.When I stopped playing my raid tank, I was frustrated with the warrior class. This was before dual spec was affordable or the norm. So, I was heavily prot specced and while I could tank very well with the tools I was given, trying to do daily quests or anything else was slow and painful, even if I wore the DPS gear that I got as cast offs in raids where no one else wanted or needed the stuff. But, at that point, threat generation was not a problem. It never was for me. It was solved by Devastate adding threat (I think it no longer does, shame), and by Thunderclap also generating extra threat. And then there was the new Prot talent (shockwave?) that made Warrior threat even better. But, it still wasn't PaladinAOEloltanking. So, while I was satisfied and happy with at least how my warrior tanked, it seemed that others weren't because they wanted AOEloltanking, something warriors just don't excel at.Anyway, tangent. I honestly don't see why Bliz screwed with threat generation in the first place. It was fine back in BC, at least for warriors who didn't have lazy dps that wanted AOEloltanking, but I guess it just didn't scale well?Right now, anyway, pre-raid, warriors seem to be doing okay at least from a dps and heals point of view. Paladins are good if not played by an idiot. And I think bear tanks are really suffering the most right now... but maybe I've just gotten bad bear tanks in my groups. No experience since Cata with DK tanks.I do kind of long for the days when threat was kind of easy. TC. Devastate. Tab, devastate. Tab, devastate. Shout. Shield slam when up, or timed to interrupt spellcasts. Block when up. Wash, rinse, repeat. Playing a warrior back then was fun... back before they made bears and paladins able to tank better with bigger groups of mobs.
Aetsu, I'm pretty sure there have been Blue Posts in the past (From GC himself, I believe) that have stated that Vengeance is more of a Raid ability than a 5 Man ability. That's to say that, you'll get (And see) the most benefit out of it in Raids, while in 5 Mans and such, you won't see quite as much a benefit... You might in Heroics, if the fights go on long enough.