It doesn't effect one tank class more than any other. EVERY class is losing 20% dodge.If you have a Warrior with 30% Dodge and 20% parry, and a druid with 50% dodge, a pally with 28% Dodge, 22% Parry, and a DK with 25% dodge and 25% Parry what happens....The all start out with 50% avoidance and they all end up with 30%.All tanks lose 20% avoidance, yes...but in doing so it highlights strengths/weaknesses inherent in the class when it doesn't have as much avoidance. Warriors, paladins and druids all have a block, or pseudo-block mechanic to work with. Warriors and DKs will have their threat output reduced a bit. Druids still have high hp pools and raw mitigation, they were never really an avoidance based tank to begin with. And so on and so forth.
Aww, poor DKs and Druids crying about nerfs. Do you guys have any idea how efficient Block is? Not much, let me tell you that. The 2k I am going to block barely matter when the boss is already smacking me for close to 20k. Warriors and Paladins rely on Dodge (and parry) just as much as any other tank.Now, giving this a second thought, Druids are allowed to cry. It's bad for them, because they have neither Block (not that it matters anyway), nor Parry.
Aww, poor DKs and Druids crying about nerfs. Do you guys have any idea how efficient Block is? Not much, let me tell you that. Anub'arak would like a word with you. On a more serious note, are you seriously pooh-poohing an extra 10% damage mitigation? I'm willing to bet if there were a trinket that had on it "Use: You take 10% reduced damage for 20 seconds (2 minute cooldown)" you and every other tank would be all over it. It only takes 15% block chance and, as you say, 2k block rating, to simulate that without the trinket. Hell, when Blizzard changes Block so that it's always a percentage of boss health, it'll be even better.
DKs and Druids aren't the only ones feeling the hurt. The amount of shield block rating is nil in most of the new gear. Being a pally tank, being able to block is my bread and butter. They forced me into taking more dodge because they dropped shield block off basically every epic I get my hands on. Now they're going to turn around and knock all that dodge they forced me to take to useless. Makes me think they want to go back to just warriors being able to tank since shield block although being my best defense doesnt stop everything.
Aww, poor DKs and Druids crying about nerfs. Do you guys have any idea how efficient Block is? Not much, let me tell you that. The 2k I am going to block barely matter when the boss is already smacking me for close to 20k. Warriors and Paladins rely on Dodge (and parry) just as much as any other tank.Now, giving this a second thought, Druids are allowed to cry. It's bad for them, because they have neither Block (not that it matters anyway), nor Parry.Scoff at block all you like, but block does in fact increase EH. Paladins especially, are very good at blocking (hello, redoubt! hello, holy shield!), so they can expect to block a portion of boss damage on most hits they don't dodge or parry.Bosses in ICC will be hitting more frequently thanks to the weaker avoidance. If you can't dodge or parry the attack, blocking it is the next best thing. If a boss is going to hit you for 20k, 2k block is a 10% reduction to the hit. That's hardly bad or negligible, especially when you drag it out over the course of a 5 to 10 minute boss encounter. If a boss dealing 20k damage an attack is blocked 10 times for 2k a block per minute, that's 1 boss hit totally negated just by the bonus of having block. This is bad how?Druids don't have block, but they DO have savage defence, which is a pseudo-block. They also boast the best hp and armor values of the tanks. So druids are still going to be great tanks in terms of EH. DKs are the only tanking class to lack a block or imitiation block mechanic, so they are the ones being hit the hardest by the change. Their threat, as well as warrior threat (to a lesser extent) is also going to be hurt with the loss of avoidance.Am I complaining about it? No, because I'm not a tank (at least, it's not my primary role in my guild, I do tank when we're short on people). I'm simply stating what I believe will be the case. Druids and paladins will be the tanks of choice for ICC, warriors will be viable but weaker, and DKs will likely be relegated to the offtank position.With avoidance clearly not being the way the devs wish for tanks to go, we will be looking to maximise EH instead. Block is one of the best ways to go about doing this.
Wow... they make content marginally difficult and we're filled with QQers already. I play(ed) a DK tank, and I'd love this change - the challenges will finally be difficult. get over it =\\.
Now, giving this a second thought, Druids are allowed to cry. It's bad for them, because they have neither Block (not that it matters anyway), nor Parry.Bears don't cry my friend. A druid with 45% dodge will lose 20%, going down to 25% dodge.A paladin with 25% dodge also loses 20%, going down to 5% dodge.All tanks will lose the same 20% mitigation. Both retain their other defenses, whether it is block, parry, or steel-wool fur, so neither will actually be better or worse. The only exception would be if a warrior or pally had less than 20% dodge to begin with, but I'm sure with the higher gear levels, that will not happen often.
This is a bear boost, not a bear nerf. To be completely serious, this change will affect healers the most, not the tanks. And to be completely honest: it's a tank buff. Paladins will now emerge as the best tanks, while druids will get slightly more threat via more crits that they need for Savage Defence (while still having the most of all of the 3d best tanking stat: dodge (after armour and HP, which they also have slightly more)).It is still essentially AGI+STA for bears and STR+STA for everyone else.All tanks are pretty evened-out in terms of stamina nowdays, a good bear's HP is 2000-4000 HP bigger than a warrior's or paladin's at absolute best. Druids retain their high dodge margin (AGI for criiiit pleeeease) along with their bigger armor which actually boosts their mitigation with the overall reduced damage. The biggest issue is dodge-related abilities, like in the case of DK's Rune Strike and...druids will generate somewhat less rage.Otherwise, this is a goldsink for healers, who will now need to re-stat for more MP5 and less spike-healing (Flash of Light anyone?). Hurray! to Trees and their Rejuv that was not nerfed.
Ima stack me some parry!
Damn, I just mastered in elixers.... guess I have to change back to potions for all the healing potions that will sell now. Really, it sucks that they do this to fix problems with the tanks and end up screwing Rogues. This really downgrades evasion, which when combined with Ghostly strike made for almost automatic dodge of all hits for about 15 seconds.
Damn, I just mastered in elixers.... guess I have to change back to potions for all the healing potions that will sell now. Really, it sucks that they do this to fix problems with the tanks and end up screwing Rogues. This really downgrades evasion, which when combined with Ghostly strike made for almost automatic dodge of all hits for about 15 seconds.You really think potions will sell more now? I don't know..with that whole one potion per battle thing I can't see them getting crazy popular until that limit on them goes away
Look, people, CALM down- GC has never been wrong, has never made stupid decisions and he is the best man for the job.All he wanted to do was to get rid of rogue tanks- they were getting OP.
Look, people, CALM down- GC has never been wrong, has never made stupid decisions and he is the best man for the job.All he wanted to do was to get rid of rogue tanks- they were getting OP.Hey hey hey hey hey. I've only survived an entire 15 seconds of evasion tanking 20-30 times, I don't think that's OP at all!
This was so Needed..to all the tards out there wearing 2 brewfest trinkets tanking ToGc,it just bugs me..the whole point of this reduction in dodge is to STOP the stacking of 30 stam gems in everything and to acually use the parry and dodge gems that came out...learn to spread out stats..Bears gem diffrently..DK's more parry more dodge...warriors & pallies u got block...yay use the other skills you have. some fresh lvl 80 in 2 brewfest trinkets will not be able to go in to ICC "Working as intended"
Leet, time to stack items like thisAlso, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are still going to be using Brewfest Trinkets. Wearing avoidance trinkets will still be just as fail as it is now, for the same reasons.
So much for my idea of tanking ICC as a hunter...(Lol)
I'm reading this as evasion has gotten so high that in order to try and compensate and keep encounters challenging designers have increased the damage levels. This leads to huge unpredictable damage spikes when inevitably they fail to avoid an attack. So this in turns leads to healers having to spam their biggest heals and massively overheal in the hope of catching one of these spikes before it kills the tank. So by cutting back on avoidance they can cut back on damage, and lead to a more strategic healing style where mana management becomes more important than spam healing.
DKs don't have nearly as much pure health as any of the other tanking classes. As a DK with 5/5 ToGC10 and 2/5 ToGC25, gemmed for stam, I have yet to reach over 39k health unbuffed and still meet the hit/exp/def caps, even in a Blood spec. Other tanks in the same gear are easily reaching 40+-50k health. So even if spike damage is reduced, taking 5 hits for 8k damage (usually more in hard modes) will kill a DK, but not another class. With more hits landing in ICC, healers are going to have to watch DK tanks very carefully.I was hoping Blizzard would make up for this by throwing a bit more stam on DK tier pieces, or else we might be sidelined for a class that can soak up a bit more while a healer is running out of fire and charging a cast, for example. But the tier pieces are about even for tanking classes, so I'm not sure how it's going to be handled.