I wish there were more challenges, but from my experience most random pugs won't clear heroic Halls of Reflection...at all. I usually stick around to try but my groups so often just don't stay alive through the waves or take them out fast enough. Of course it has been awhile since I tried, and maybe the general populace has learned it/become better geared since then, but that was the experience I had before. So basically I wish there were more like this, where you have to think about and know what you're doing in order to succeed.
HoR is my favorite Heroic because it is hard. I wish they had not nerfed it. It actually took some thought to complete it. You could use CC if needed. It was a wonderful heroic to check your skill. Complaints and dodging it lead to it getting nerfed. I agree with the author that heroics after you reach a certain gear level are basically treadmill fodder.
Try playing with a blind fold, or without a mouse. This would certainly prove challenging to the most concerning of gamers.
Heroic difficulty scaling with something like average iLvl would be really awesome.
To echo what has already been said, HoR is still a decent challenge to people in 226/232 epics. Likewise, the latter half of PoS can be a bit tricky (especially the uphill pulls). I do hope Blizzard will keep up this trend in Cataclysm, with progressively harder heroics to keep a challenge. But I also do not in the least bit miss the days where every pull had to be carefully planned with multiple CCs. This may add some challenge, but mostly it just adds tedium. HoR has shown that you can be challenging without being tedious.
Honestly, Im not so sure I like treadmill mode. Harks back to older, worse games like Ragnarok Online where I'd be farming one kind of mob on one map for 10+ hours per day. While I don't like super hard heroics, I also don't like ones that turn into a wipefest just because the last tick of my Renew overcame the tank's attempt at body pulling and caused all the ghosts to aggro to me with three seconds left on my Fade cooldown.Its a difficult balance.
I think that the current heroics are not really heroic at all; excluding the ICC ones, of course. They do actually pose quite a challenge for the average group and CC can even come in handy.I look forward to what Cataclysm will offer and am looking forward to actual heroic versions of instances, where it isn't just a "treadmill" frame of mind. I can't raid but I want the same sense of accomplishment and challenge and learning the dynamics of an instance with just four other people.I wouldn't like to see us go back to, say, MgT or ShH, but I would like to see the need for coordination, CC and knowing boss mechanics in order to succeed.Edit: for those saying that HoR poses a challenge, I wholeheartedly agree. If you want more of a challenge, try three-manning it. Had one DPS d/c and the other die during the second set of waves, but we finished off one entire wave plus the following boss as a disc priest (me), paladin tank and elemental shaman. Gives a much greater sense of accomplishment to do something like that!
Now, I'm not trying to #$%^& about the general difficulty (or lack thereof) of high level content in WotLKBAD WORD
If people remember, heroics back at the start of wrath wasn't a cake walk if you pugged them. Now if you ran with people you knew they went smoother. Now with the ilvl of the badge gear someone gain attain through heroics, yes, they will be a breeze. We are coming to the end of this expansion. Since Blizzard wanted everyone to get a chance to see what they created they also made heroics(the starter wotlk heroics) a cake walk in these last stages of this expansion.
The WotLK heroics were fun back in the very beginning. Now? No way. The fights have been nerfed, and the level of gear is 3x what is what meant to be for doing them originally. No fun at all.
The incredible boring heroics are what have made so many say that WoW is now easy mode. I'm not so sure they made raiding accessible to everyone, so much as they forced it on everyone. As you say there's no challenge (aka fun) to be had unless you raid.WoW is far from easy, but the place where many used to get their "challenge" fix is now gone.
By skill, I mean doing the things that it takes to get the job done, knowing how/when to do those things. Sure, I can go stand in the corner and we force the mobs to come to us. As a hunter, I should MD the tank, use whatever method I can to transfer as much threat from as many mobs to the tank as possible. I can use Volley and pre set two traps to do that.I also should look out for the loose rifleman or mage that is going after the healer. Hit it with a freezing arrow to save the healer, which saves the tank, which normally save the party.Crushing the DPS meter does not matter if you can't win the fight. Everyone that you group with may not know the fight. In that case your skill as a part of the group combined with your knowledge of the fight becomes even more valuable.I used my DK in a group with a hunter that kept getting aggro. I used DG once and told him next time he would eat the mob. He said he was just doing his job. That's fine. You can stand there and go through your rotation, but I'm not going to save you because you decide to not be aggro aware. He died on the next pull due to pulling aggro. If he was being skilled at his craft of DPS he would watch his threat as well as DPS and rotation. You must play with a select group of people. There are a lot of knuckleheads that play that can not do patterns.
Heroics are too easy. Period. Even most of the achievements are too easy now. But enough about the question. I was sure I was the only person to try and play wow on my treadmill. Its great. I feel way worse about playing video games for too long. Although my setup is far less epic than yours. I just put a board across the handles and set my laptop on it. You just made my week...forget about the paladin preview.
Keep in mind Oculus, the one instance that requires you to pay attention no matter what gear you have. that in my opinion is a very good skill check. What happened? All those "This game is EZmode" people started bailing on it until they had to nerf it twice and give you extra loot just to entice you, and I still see only about a 50% rate of actually completing the dungeon.What about EoE? very fun and very involving raid, I am one of two people in my guild who have actually even attempted(and completed) it.Point is, Blizzard has put some fun and challenging elements into the game, but the general populus won't do them because it requires teamwork and communication.Here is a trick, try to do heroics in Ilv 187 blues, I guarantee you will remember why they were challenging. sure nexus is boring with T10 gear on, have you and you tank ever tried to do it wearing lv5 vendor white gear? (we allow epics on any slot that doesn't show on the char) It changes the dynamic incredibly.My point is that most people just want to march through dungeons for their emblems and TBH it feels good after all the gearing to be able to down Loken in less than 30 seconds. But if your beef with WoW is that you got too much gear for the content you are running, only you can control that.P.S. If you are looking for a mental challenge, lock your keys in your house/apartment and try to figure out a way to get in. I managed it last week and I felt like a master thief for days.
2 words:Demon's Souls
I would actually enjoy a Hardcore mode or Legendary mode for the Heroics!Those instances would be unbearable without CC. Tactics for those bosses should be a MUST but ofc the loot would be attuned to these instances :) (Like they did with ICC and ToC, same items, higher iLvl)A certain average of iLvls on items would be required to join this as random as wel as several achievements of the HC versions (for example, Heroic Dungeon Master) so block out the undergeared and the noobs :)The bosses could also drop 1 Emblem of Frost (or only the last boss to spice things up AND make those instances appealing)But like I said, they should VERY challenging:1. To make it fun :)2. To test your skill or train it so you can preform better in raids3. Phat lewt :D(They should even give Naxxramas, OS and Maly a HC mode!)