Might as well toss my two cents in here.Sylvanas parallels Arthas a lot these days, as has been duly noted. She is also paralleling Garrosh; also duly noted.Leaving aside all of the various theories which have here been stated, fringe or otherwise, what I am really surprised by is the lack of a comparison to the Starcraft 2 storyline, which, particularly based on the "villains" that are left and the Illidan "story" (read: retcon), from Legion up to what we know about BFA, is uncannily similar.Misunderstood villains fighting for a "greater" cause or against a greater villain? I mean, how obvious does it have to be? From Arthas to Sylvanas to Illidan all the way up to Sargeras, we're got a bunch of Overmind, Kerrigan, or Zerg copypastas, all hoping to defeat the Void... lords.We can't kill her because she's potentially our salvation against a "greater" evil? This right here makes Sylvanas another Kerrigan. On his deathbed on the Broken Shore, Vol'jin became Zeratul. Genn Greyman is basically Tychus and Anduin is shaping up to be a nice Raynor.In a more general sense, the we-can't-kill-X-or-do-Y-because-they/it-are-our-final-and-only-hope-against-a-greater-evil trope/storyarc/whatever has been done to DEATH by Blizzard, in particular, though they're not the only media creators that have used it.Blizzard used to make great stories. I've been playing their games since the 90's, when Warcraft was an RTS and Starcraft had a story that didn't blow chunks. This isn't to say those games are definitively better or that my opinion is better because I played old games. The real point here, is one that the Broeas person made earlier. We're getting rehashed and shallow content that is poorly justified.Sylvanas is bitter and angry. Arthas went insane. Illidan was a power hungry &*!@. These things are simple, but they aren't shallow. Not everyone has to be a $%^&ing hero, or antihero, or whatever Blizzard thinks is in-vogue or will stretch out tired storylines. Kill characters, be a bit more GoT, and get on with a new &*!@ing story. Maybe make a Warcraft 4. But for the love of all that is good, stop trying to redress characters and give them "motives" or "depth" so you can rehash content...Sorry this turned into a semi-rant, but $%^& people. Expect better content. Don't settle for crap just because a big name is on it. Take your dollars elsewhere if you don't like it. If you do like it, cool.
I came up with this thought in the tail end of this expansion as I was fuming quietly over Jaina's heel turn that was worse than anything I had ever seen even in professional wrestling. There is an obvious joke theory of 'Jaina is a Dreadlord', which is amusing, but didn't really make sense. So I started thinking about when it really happened. In 'Tides of War', we see the first flashes of the hatred that Jaina could show with the destruction of Theramore, and her intent to destroy Orgrimmar with a tidal wave. If not for Thrall and Kalecgos talking her down, she would have done so, not only destroying Org, but wiping out the Alliance navy that she didn't realize was there. She expressed remorse at this point, and though she and Thrall's friendship came to an end, she still had hopes for peace. This continues through the first part of Pandaria, she now amid the land of the Sha where pretty much literally the first thing both factions are told is that the land reacts strongly to strong emotions. She leads the Kirin Tor, and refuses Varian's suggestion of kicking the Sunreavers from Dalaran, because she wants Dalaran to be a beacon of peace and a hope for the future. Of important note during this bit is that during a period where the Alliance leaders are talking about using the Sha powers, she doesn't say anything, but ends up restraining a manifestation of the Sha of Hatred (this is important). She acknowledges that the Kirin Tor have been manipulated and that it has a legacy of abuse, she hopes that despite their faction loyalties they can put that aside and maintain the Kirin Tor philosophy of using power wisely. Then the Divine Bell shennagins happened. And Jaina, who had just previously argued that the Sunreavers stay in Dalaran, suddenly gets super, super mad that the Sunreavers would betray her and goes nuts on the Horde.That was the real turning point. Not the destruction of her city, that almost did it but she backed down. Not Rhonin's death. Not Varian suggesting she make the Sunreavers go away before, but the actions of the Sunreavers using Kirin Tor knowledge to steal an object for Garrosh? This moment is nothing, compared to everything before. Theramore could have possibly made sense! Id still be annoyed, but that could have made sense! But stealing the Divine Bell? Well. It's a turning point because it flared that anger again, a weakness, and exposed Jaina's hatred for Garrosh. I think that the Sha of Hatred is controlling Jaina Proudmoore. She takes such an intense turn into pure hatred for the Horde that it surprises Varian, who had been working with the Blood Elves to have them rejoin the Alliance, the man who had even kinda suggested that the Blood Elves be kicked out of Dalaran previously! But inspired by peace from his son, and by extension Jaina's stance with Dalaran at that point, he seeks peace instead. Only now Jaina's going gunho on the Hate train. Thread! 1/
2/Why is this important in an article about Sylvanas? I think that Sylvanas is controlled by the Sha of Despair.The Sha are the remains of literally the most powerful Old God that existed, Y'Shaarj. They are basically it's children. Sure, Y'Shaarj may be gone with the destruction of it's heart when defeating Garrosh, and Yu'lon says that the Sha will fade with the destruction of the heart, but the wild gods were wrong about this sort of thing before, the Legion returned, the Nightmare corrupted. And how long until it fades? Surely decades, if at all, it's not going to go away in a year. The Old Gods are known to play a long game. Violence says that as long as Violence lives in everyone's heart, it'll be back. Same with virtually all of the other Sha. We may have dealt with those manifestations on Pandaria, but whats to say that parts of them didn't escape to the rest of Azeroth by hitching a ride with someone else? Sure, Pandaria was two expansions ago, but that's what, three, four years in the world of Azeroth? A blink of an eye for an eternal creature. So if Hatred weaseled into Jaina, how did Despair get into Sylvanas? Slyvanas hated Garrosh. She didn't like him from the start, she opposed the bombing of Theramore because she felt it would turn the Alliance against Undercity and Silvermoon. She willingly stands with Vol'jin, though Vol'jin knows that it's because she hates Garrosh, not because she exactly agrees with his resistance. Garrosh is the greatest threat to the Forsaken than anyone in the Alliance has been at this point, viewing the Forsaken as nothing more than cannon fodder to throw at the Alliance so Orcs don't have to die. His willingness to sacrifice the Forsaken fuels Sylvanas' attempts to find ways to keep her people from dying out, with her raising new Forsaken in Silverpine, to Garrosh's disgust and horror. He tells her to stop it, but he doesn't understand her. She otherwise lays low for most of Pandaria aside from that, but in 'War Crimes' she steps forward more into the main story, and onto Pandaria itself. At this point, like Jaina still mostly being about peace, Sylvanas is still generally fueled by vengeance, but mostly wants to just live and exist. She thinks that putting Garrosh on trial is a joke, and suddenly finds herself with an unlikely ally, someone she probably truthfully thought would never come forth to speak to her again, because she hasn't up until this point. Vereesa. Sure, Vereesa answered Vol'jin's call for assistance against the Amani, because hey the elves have always hated that troll stronghold in their lands, and Loth'emar had let her trot around Horde lands with only a token political resistance. But Vereesa never made any attempt to take a short trip south to speak with Sylvanas. That she would come to Sylvanas now with a similar sense of vengeance, clearly filled Sylvanas with a sense of hope of sorts, a reunion with family. Since Burning Crusade, Sylvanas has ached for what she lost, when you bring her the necklace from Windrunner Spire she breaks into one of the most aching lament songs that had ever been in the game up to that point, that made me as a Blood Elf character sit there and cry. Side stories repeatedly have her thinking of what she lost. One of the overarching things about the Forsaken is the tragedy that they are now looked at as monsters by former family members, by former allies. She was a proud member of the Alliance, once. All through the game her general goal was to get her revenge, and to keep the other Forsaken safe. Now her dear little sister reaches out to her, even considers leaving her children to join her? She may not have shown it in happiness, but she was elated. How do I know? Because when Vereesa had an attack of conscious and told Anduin about the poison and simply left Sylvanas a note and disappeared, Sylvanas went on a rampage through the woods, killing anything that got in her way, and swore never to attempt to love again. This is when Despair took hold. I do believe that Despair was initially with Hatred in Jania, but with both of them present at the trial of Garrosh, and finding a better target in Sylvanas, it left it's brother and went to play in a new, more suitable being.Thread! (cont)
3/ When Sylvanas gives Nathanos a new body in 'Dark Mirror', one of her rangers comments to him that Sylvanas had deeper feelings for him, considering all that she had done for him. Feelings that the story suggests Nathanos once held, but they never fully stated to each other, and tells Dark Ranger Anya that his heart only holds rage and contempt. Sylvanas has to know this. Anya is one of her most loyal Dark Rangers. To hear, once and for all that Nathanos doesn't love her, only continues to hammer home her Despair. Another blow to what bit of emotion she had left. Then comes the Broken Shore. She's allowed to revel in her vengeance and strike directly at the thing that basically caused all of her problems, the Legion. She even finally gets acknowledgement of herself from Varian, exchanging rather polite words with the Alliance King. She was clearly distraught at having to pull her rangers back from providing cover fire for Varian and the Alliance, but as she sees one of the only protectors that her people have, the Horde, dying around her, she has to call them back. Another blow to her, one that she knows will cause the Alliance that she was once a proud member of, to dismiss her as a monster. Again. Then she's forced into being Warchief, something she's clearly not fond of, something that the Horde is giving each other the side eye over, and she's quietly suffering over it all, this hammered home a bit more in 'Before the Storm'. Sure, it might not look like she's feeling anguish. She's only shown anger. But how often is anger a mask over pain?Despite everything, she's trying to still focus on basically one thing, keeping herself and the Forsaken alive, the first thing she does is go to Stormheim, and make a deal with a goddess who controls Death in her own way. Maybe it was Sylvanas who gave Helya the ability to capture the Stormborn? Just an aside. But she's focused on her future, until Genn takes it away. Then comes the 'Three Sisters' comic. When they play the 2 truths 1 lie game, if anyone was paying attention it's fairly clear (to me) that Sylvanas' lie was that she was proud to be warchief. She clearly longs to be alive, still, though she I feel that she lies about it constantly, and despite the chance to betray her sisters, she doesnt. Vereesa apologizes for her actions in Pandaria, which was the catalyst to stay her hand, but Aleria's reaction had to be painful. That Aleria would call her a monster, and then later stand with the Alliance and say she should have killed her...ow. But what about the Void whispers to Aleria? They were telling her to kill Sylvanas! Yes, but they were also telling her to kill Turalyon. The Locus Walker told Aleria time and again the the Void would lie and twist the truth and try to manipulate her. The Void knows full well that Aleria had been questioning since Argus why Sylvanas would side with the Horde, that her first questions to Vereesa would be to ask what happened to turn Sylvanas into a monster. The Void knows of Aleria's fear and pain, it would feed off of that. It also wouldn't care if Sylvanas actually died or not, it would let Despair go find someone else...maybe even Aleria, to help the Void twist her further. And if Sylvanas were somehow the ultimate weapon against the Void and the Old Gods, it would both make sense to aim for her death, and to control her. Thread! Cont.
4/4 The entire cinematic at the end of The War of Thorns shows what to Sylvanas was her loss of hope, when Arthas killed her, and she lost everything. She still held onto some, however she might deny it, evidenced by her interactions with her sisters and other brief sparks of hopefulness towards something good only to have those hopes dashed time and again. The Forsaken she has killed for deserting her in 'Before The Storm' are those who still held hope, the only ones she feels she can trust are those who are filled with nothing but loss and..Despair. But when she's confronted with someone who despite everything still feels some glimmer of hope, Sylvanas snapped and had the World Tree burned. Time and again we see quotes from Sylvanas talking about how there is no hope, from when she flung herself off of Icecrown to when what little bits she had kept being taken from her time and again, to really having it emphasized now in 'Three Sisters' and 'Before The Storm', Sylvanas is lost to Despair. Does she know she's being manipulated? Maybe not yet, but I keep having a feeling that she'll realize it at some point and make herself an unknown hero of BfA, but then again, maybe not. Does Jaina know she's been controlled by Hatred? We'll have to see how things unfold, maybe her time away from everything and self reflection helped her break it's hold some. But part of the reason why this all seems so natural, at least for Sylvanas, is because it's still simply playing on what she was already starting to feel.Thread over, sorry not sorry for the length! I had to get this somewhere!
Thank you very much Perculia for this great review and insights !The way I see it now, Sylvanas is a third faction representing Death, replacing in a certain form Arthas.Vol'jin was shown by a Loa (maybe Bawonsamedi, Loa of Death?) that somehow Sylvanas will help/save us (our heroes, Azeroth).The next big enemy in line being the Void (3rd Warbringer with Azshara remains to be seen), we can extrapolate that Sylvanas/Death will oppose the Void and help Azeroth.In the process Sylvanas will probably die or won't be able to lead the Forsaken by the end of the extenssion to be replaced by Calia Menethil, the last real heir of Lordaeron and a combination of a priest and and a Light born undead.Also it would be logical that Sylvanas/Death seeks the help/power of Bolvar/the Lich King at some point.
I really don't see Sylvanas as a villan for a horde player. Now that we have her motives for starting this war, it makes perfect sense. Now I understand what was her strategy in occupying Teldrassil. Basicly, she would have occupy the tree and lay it as a trap for the Alliance. The "Siege on Lordaeron" would have become the "Siege of Teldrassil". Meaning that she would lure the Alliance forces and leaders into Teldrassil, and then she would burn it down along with them while she uses a planned escapse route. For this to work, she needed the Alliance in disarry to make a rushed and unplanned attack, so they couldn't see through her trap. Since conquering Darkshore didn't break the Night-Elves spirit, hence not throwing the Alliance in disarry, occupying the tree wouldn't meet her goals. That's why she decided to burn Teldrassil straight away.Since the startegy on Teldrassil failed, she used Lordaeron for it. We can see in scenario that the "Siege for Lordaeron" was rushed and poorly strategized by the Alliance. First, they can't even manage to break the walls without some unforeseeable help (Jaina). Then, after they break through the walls, thier troops are being funneled by Sylvanas, and then again they are being assisted by unforeseeable help (Alleria and her void elves). Even after they manage to break through everything, Sylvanas lure the Alliance leaders into her trap (which again they manage to escape thanks to unplanned help).Her strategy has been brilliant all along. The fact that she is cold and harsh doesn't mean she is a villian, it just makes her that much better in strategy. Her goal was to eliminate the Alliance leadership so this war could end right there. As far as I can see, she clearly has the horde's survival in her best interest. In fact, Saurfang is the one that didn't see the bigger picture. He didn't mind losing as long as he got his "honorable death". This guy clearly has a deathwish. How does the horde dying an "honorable death" would benefit them in the long run? It wouldn't! We clearly see in the scenario and in "Old Soldier" that all he cares about is dying an "honorable death". (Except in Old Soldier, Zappyboi reminds him that the survival of the horde is more important, and that's why he doesn't act on his deathwish)I see clear difference between Arthas and Sylvanas. Arthas's downfall came from an obsession for vengance. We can see how he was played by Mal'Ganis all along (and by Ner'zul after he picks up Frostmourne). Sylvanas on the other hand, is the one pulling the strings here. Also, thier goals seem different. Arthas only wished to make everyone his servants through undeath, Sylvanas's actions would have benefited the horde in the long run (had her strategy succeeded).And please, stop trying to put the blame on a third party (aka old gods). That would be the laziest possible writing.
General comment:If Anduin is actually corrupted (can't have an unquestionable good character in a shades-of-grey world),and Teldrassil was actually corrupted (not like it's the first corrupted world tree...),suddenly all Sylvanas's actions are actually for the greater good (even if only accidentally).I still think it's terrible writing, even by the standards of pulp fiction. It portrays a previously solid character as a negligent & unstable leader, it suspends the independent actions of a host of other characters to shoehorn a plot, and it's written at a pace that's unsuited to the slow release serialised plot that's necessary for MMOs. It doesn't matter how good the end is if you lose half the audience at the beginning.
...Holy CATS! If this is true, that's be one HELL of a plot twist! It would even go s bit of distance to explaining the ham-fistedness the story has.
I usually get moody about speculation pieces, but this is very high quality. I enjoyed dis.Kudos.
Well, I have thinking about this a lot of time but just got a bunch of ideas without a solid glue between them, dunno if correct or not:From the Fel PoV: