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The Carrot Has Been Removed, Thoughts On Flying. + Second Quarter Predictions?
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Post by
Berronaxwins
With the recent comments made during an interview with "Watcher" it has been said that there might not be flying in any future expansions or content updates.
On the WoW forums this has been quite the explosive topic, And I'm quite curious to see what the WoWhead community thinks of the recent comments.
My personal view on flying, is it is fine to have no flying up until maximum level, and until you have explored everything, so "world explorer" and max level would unlock flying, except for current content zones such as the upcoming tanaan jungle, not allowing flying after that though seems incredibly pointless.
The whole subject of flying and the possibility of blizzard reintroducing it has been an incentive a "carrot on a stick" if you will, for many of my friends to keep playing, and with the recent announcement they have all decided to reconsider whether they will continue playing or not.
Which makes me wonder what the subscription numbers will be at the next quarter, judging from last quarter and recent unofficial polls, it estimate it to be around 5.5-6 million
Edit: It does break my heart to see what's happening to WoW currently, I've loved this game for an entire decade, which is almost half my lifespan, it's more than just a game to me, and to see it failing is heart wrenching.
The recent decisions of flying seem to be "the straw that broke the camels back" for a lot of people, not the reason they've quit, but rather the last change that they simply can't accept and play with.
I am sincerely worried for wow's future.
Post by
Skullhawk13
I personally think we shouldn't bring this topic up on wowhead myself....It will just spawn vitriol and hatred, regardless of the merits for and against flight. It will not be very productive.
Post by
Rankkor
Nah, its okay to discuss this. Its a sensible and often volatile topic, but as long as everyone treat each other with respect and civility, then all is well.
My personal opinion is that I'm very saddened by this announcement. While I agree with almost everything they've said to justify the removal of flight, I also believe that either extreme is wrong. Adding it from the start (Ala cataclysm) was bad, and not adding it at all (ala Warlords of Draenor) is equally bad.
Ultimately we're all players. Pro-flyers and anti-flyers. We
both
have the same rights, and I don't feel its okay to punish one side to please the other. A mid-way compromise should have been the way to go. Leave flight disabled for 50% of the expansion, then switch it back on for the latter 50% of the expansion.
This way, new content is flightless while its new and fresh, and players like me who enjoy flying can soar the skies when said content is obsolete and trivial.
Being grounded forever and ever is not the answer, and I hope blizzard reconsiders their stance on this. They've changed their minds
so much
on
so many
topics that it would not surprise me if they change their minds about flying later. I hope they do, because a world of warcraft where we're grounded forever doesn't sound appealing to me, and would only detract me from logging in more and more.
Post by
asakawa
I like having no flying and, like Rank, agree with the reasons Blizz gives for not wanting it in the game.
I don't think Cataclysm was all bad with flying from the start, Deepholm was designed well to have that make perfect sense. But then you go to Twilight Highlands and start hopping quest to quest and it all falls apart.
I don't really understand wanting to play the game less if flying isn't part of it but that's not to say I don't think that view is a valid one. I'm fine with the announcement anyway, and am not put off at all. I'm happy to play the game as Blizz wants it to be.
Post by
Wombat62
personally couldn't care one way or the other , and going by trade chat 99% of my server are of the same opinion . It certainly wont affect how I play the game . The taxi service and other things in WoD gets you to most places quicker then flying yourself. For example I can get from my garrison to BRF in less then 20 seconds using Mole machine / feather combo
Post by
335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Going to probably do some rant thing later on about this, but my general impressions go as follows in relation to this topic:
I am okay with restricting flying in newer zones/content in order to prevent flying from speeding up the consumption of content either by trivializing it entirely or just generally speeding things up due to how fast flying is.
It is also okay to have totally flightless zones (for all time, like with Timeless Isle), for similar reasons.
Going flightless but allowing certain flying utilities can be a mixed bag. It makes them more valuable, but can be perceived as mocking since Blizzard is willing to allow some flight, but not persistent flight.
At the same time, I believe there are ways to prevent flying from trivializing content. For instance, if a quest requires someone to go into the middle of an encampment, why not just have them get forcibly dismounted if they try to fly in (this happens with Aviana's Feather during the Legendary quest, for instance)?
While I recall statements about Blizzard and obstacles related to flying, why not bring back some of them but potentially make them less archaic? Instead of being forcibly dismounted by dragon fire and dying from the fall, why not try to avoid attacks that would otherwise dismount you but it would be more of an inconvenience rather than death (like with a certain Ogri'la daily)?
Going completely flightless really sucks for a lot of reasons. Namely, why even bother spending money on Artisan Riding if it's going to be largely pointless? Also, while one can ride flying mounts on the ground, that still doesn't go without consequences such as not being able to see a large amount of animations (Sky Golem flying animation looks very fascinating, for instance).
I support the idea of level cap flying at some point, like with Mists, at least in the major areas (meaning everywhere but Tanaan Jungle at the moment). Also, when making new content, why not get creative with zone design as part of the experience and make flying more integral like with Wrath? (Probably would be a bad idea to overdo it on either).
Quarter 2 will probably see a very small rise in subs due partially to WoW Tokens. If 6.2 is released in June (probably will be) or earlier, it may rise more. These two factors should outweigh general frustrations associated with the recent announcement and previous events.
Edit: Short version is that I'm fine with no-fly areas due to content and exploration reasons (among others) but would love to see more content built around flight (there's some in the game as it is) and would definitely like to see flight in older content once it's been rendered more or less obsolete to help ensure flying mounts are not.
Post by
darkelemental1
I just find it lazy world building. Rather than design around the habits of the players and expand on the things they have, they limit the player to keep them locked into a more and more linear game.
Post by
PTsICU
I'm pro flying.
- I will not bother with archaeology without flying in WoD. It simply isn't worth the huge hassle.
- It may not be game breaking, but it is a huge inconvenience factor.
- The issue with people sitting in their garrison is certainly not helped with keeping flying unavailable. People would be much more inclined to at least get out from time-to-time, if they had that option available to them. IMO
I think the numbers will continue to decline, albeit not as much as this past quarter. I do not see it increasing at all for the rest of this expansion.
Post by
Nulgar
Agreeing with the previous three people.
It seems like they looked at the squabbles dying down, as people calmed themselves with the fact that Flying would return at a later point in the progression of the expansion, farming resources wasn't as important*, and they interpreted that as a sign that people don't "miss" Flying.
If anything, it's sad to basically remove something that has been with us for 9 years now. A personal means of quick transportation, free from the rules of taxis, even as those got improved (even with more overall flight points, important areas that you visit a lot are still usually "off the track", so you have to travel on foot anyway)
It feels like the cheap way out, instead of working
with
the feature, restricting it creatively so that it doesn't trivialize content.
They integrated Flying so well in Cata, even into the levelling experience. Especially Deepholm didn't feel like just a vast rocky expanse blotted with quest areas, but something we explored, despite the 'simple' layout.
But while Outland, the first 'continent' with Flying, already introduced ways to not let players get too comfortable on their flying mounts, out of reach of harm's way,
they did not pursue that path at all
.
* recent statements imply it will again from now on, not just in Tanaan, but also the next expansion
Post by
cephadex
As I said elsewhere, I think it's funny people are actually surprised by this decision; regardless of my own opinion, I thought it was pretty clear that Bliz's attitude had been that they perceive no flying as a good thing. Not to be mean but I kind of feel like there's already enough
whining
discussion about this topic and I'm not sure what benefit would come from discussing it more.
Also, I don't think you should read what the blue posts say at face value; that is, I don't think Bliz "interpreted consumers' attitude as being that they're okay with not flying" in some way. Rather, I think they'd come to a conclusion that flying was probably a bad thing, and wanted to see how well they'd be able to implement that; they're just trying to deliver their decision to the masses in their best approximation of a palatable way.
To be fair, I completely get that a large proportion and possibly the majority of Bliz's consumers at the moment had first come into the game during the 'cba' era of convenience, so this is all they had ever known in WoW; in a sense, they can't really be blamed for being upset to see that that taken away if that's been something they took as a given that whole time.
Post by
asakawa
I don't get the arguments about it being lazy design. You guys don't think Blizz have been trying to find ways to work with flying for all these years since tBC? We don't want game designers who keep banging their heads against a problem, we want ones that are willing to say "this needs to be done for the game to be the best it can be, even if it's not popular".
Post by
Wombat62
I don't get the arguments about it being lazy design. You guys don't think Blizz have been trying to find ways to work with flying for all these years since tBC? We don't want game designers who keep banging their heads against a problem, we want ones that are willing to say "this needs to be done for the game to be the best it can be, even if it's not popular".
Well said .
Post by
Rankkor
I don't get the arguments about it being lazy design. You guys don't think Blizz have been trying to find ways to work with flying for all these years since tBC? We don't want game designers who keep banging their heads against a problem, we want ones that are willing to say "this needs to be done for the game to be the best it can be, even if it's not popular".
That's all fine and well, but from my point of view, this is not making the game "the best it can be" its just making it less fun for me. At this point I play mostly because of the friends I've made on the game (both figuratively and literally) not because of the game itself. This is the latest in a long series of design changes that I heavily disagree with. I get that the game has to change over time, otherwise it'd be VERY boring, and for the most part, when changes happen, I agree with some, disagree with others, but mostly still enjoy the finished product.
This time? not really. Haven't bothered leaving my garrison in months. Log only to raid and then quickly get out.
I'm gonna leave this fine quote someone left on the official forums, supposedly from Leonardo Da Vinci. Whether he actually said that or not is irrelevant, its a nice quote nonetheless:
"
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
"
Post by
asakawa
The trouble is that it's a decision where the limitations it brings (or brought, as it's been in place for a long time now) are immediately and very easily understood while the benefits are more nebulous and long term. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of the discussion we see is negative regarding the decision but I don't believe that the voices we hear opposing it actually bear any relation to a potential lowering of enjoyment (from those vocal opponents themselves or from the wider playerbase). I think it's more just a reaction to a perceived restriction of freedom, against which it's easy to knee-jerk.
Post by
Nulgar
I get that Flight can be disruptive to the levelling flow, or even trivialize maxlevel content. But why no take the previous approach of unlocking Flight at maximum level, or in Patch X.1/2?
Although I see the psychological effect of removing it altogether, after 4 expansions that allowed it, as more dangerous than the risk of ruining immersion etc.
Post by
335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
jarycu
This time? not really. Haven't bothered leaving my garrison in months. Log only to raid and then quickly get out.
I find very little reason to leave my garrison(s) too. I mainly leave them because I never bothered getting all of the L3 buildings, so I still have to leave to get the mats for achievements. (I'm currently working on
Finding Your Waystones
. I'll either finish that today or go finish leveling up my 4th toon to 100.)
All-in-all, I feel like WOD has been a huge step back, and the no-flying is yet another backwards move. I actually play more in Pandaria now than I did when it was max level, simply because I can fly around, collect high level battle pets, and still do archaeology without having to kill everything in the way from point A to B.
Post by
Berronaxwins
I get that Flight can be disruptive to the levelling flow, or even trivialize maxlevel content. But why no take the previous approach of unlocking Flight at maximum level, or in Patch X.1/2?
.
It seems a common view shared both by the pro-flying players, and the neutral "I'm ok with whatever" is that no flight is fine while levelling up to max level, or while the content is current, it is also fine if you have not yet explored said zone.
However when you HAVE reached maximum level, you HAVE explored the entire zone - multiple times, and said zone is now outdated content which is months old, it makes no sense to not have flying.
This is an opinion I'm strongly behind, and it is how I would've loved flying to have been implemented, you get to lvl100, you get "Draenor Explorer" achievement, then you are given flying, EXCEPT in the current content zone which is soon to be Tanaan Jungle, and even then you could have specific zones that are designed around no flying.
The timeless isle worked, it was good, but it only worked in my opinion because it had all the content on the ground, there was lots to do, and you could fly in other areas of pandaria, working an entire expansion around that timeless isle model, but then failing to produce the same amount of content on the ground, is a bad concept and doesn't work.
Flying wouldn't have drastically improved this expansion in my opinion, but it would've given me incentive to go out into the world and complete other things such as Archaeology, Pet Battles & Looking for the rare mobs I had missed.
Though on the subject of "rare mobs" I believe the WoD version is far inferior to the MoP style of rare mobs, where you could kill them repeatedly for more loot, I remember spending many hours just flying around pandaria hunting for rares in order to collect items to sell.
Another note about not flying, is when you're grounded permanently, the minor obstacles you encounter such as barrels, fences & invisible walls up a small mountain, which you could easily climb up yourself irl, stop you from moving - it breaks your immersion.
Post by
darkelemental1
The very problem is, in a game, 'unpopular' means it will have a negative effect overall on the game. This is entirely a game built on month to month subscriptions, if something is and remains unpopular then it will affect the subscriptions. This isnt a game where its bought and done so changes simply have to be accepted, the ebb and flow of subscribers is directly affected by things being popular or not. WoW survives on its popularity.
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