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Looking for Alpha Testers for my Dungeon Crawler !
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Post by
manutoo
Hello,
happy end of year holidays !
I'm an Indie developer (owner of Mana Games website) ; so far I mainly created tennis games, but since long time I wanted to try to do a RPG, and I finally started to do a
Dungeon Master clone
( = Dungeon crawler), featuring a combat system inspired from Wow (more or less).
It's still in the early development stages, but the game just reached the Alpha state (ie: it's far from complete, but external testing is possible & required to be sure it's headed where I want ).
A screenshot
; visually, nothing is final (ie: this is mostly programmer art, only placeholders till some artists actually create all the needed stuff), but it gives some idea of what's going on :
www.managames.com/Images/DungeonBreaker/2013-12-Alpha1-01.jpg
So would you like to test it ?
If so,
you can download the Alpha here
:
www.managames.com/download.php?DungeonBreaker_woh.rar
(~40MB)
(for Windows : require a Shader 2.0 compatible 3D Card ; ie: any gamer 3D card since 5 years).
Mainly, I'd need to have answer to these 3 questions :
1) so is it fun as it is, even a little bit ?
2) with a better IA (ie: smarter monsters with more variety in their behaviours and a lot more abilities), more abilities & Talent trees for our Party, more weapons, gears & stuff to loot, better graphisms, all that through 20 levels for about 20 hours of gameplay, could it get tremendously fun ?
3) How long time did it take you to finish the 1st level ? (total time is shown of top left of the screen, but it includes the time spent in Menus)
Notes :
- this Alpha features a level (or an half level) that should requires between 30 and 60 minutes to finish
- the combat system is very different from Dungeon Master and it's the main thing that needs testing
- there's an integrated full featured visual map editor ; although there's no documentation, so it's not easy to use it completely, as it has a lot of advanced features
Little additional notes :
- you can move & turn with the keypad 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9 keys ; you can re-assign these keys in the config tool that pops-up at start-up
- you can press the right button to enter mouse-look view ; without unpressing the right button, you can now press the left button to advance
- if the FPS are low, lower the quality in the config tool at start, and then press 'Esc' during game and lower "View Range" in "Video Options"
- Dungeon Breaker is a project codename, not the final name of the game
Note for the Forum Moderators :
This topic has been approved by
asakawa
(by email).
EDIT:
Alpha 2 is out ! More info
below in this topic
(download link in this 1st post also leads to Alpha 2)
EDIT 2:
Game is nearly finished, and it's in Greenlight now ; more details in that post =>
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=226072&p=3892966#p3892966
Post by
Monday
Good luck in your project! Hope it goes well.
Post by
Izichial
I didn't play through the entire level (mainly because of the first point below), but some spontaneous feedback in no particular order:
+ the inverted vertical camera control (for the mouse) was rather disorienting, couldn't find an option to make it normal
+ unconscious status wasn't explained unless I missed something, couldn't figure out what to do with it (apart from this I didn't find anything that wasn't explained by the npcs)
+ dps didn't change when equipping another weapon (captain's sword on the paladin iirc)
+ keybinds for abilities would be nice (clicking got a bit fiddly, see next point)
+ ability bar and portraits (latter in particular) are rather small on 1920 * 1080 on a 22" widescreen, bit too much tunnelvision during combat staring at an area that's less than 5% of the screen
Not normally my kind of game, but seemed fairly interesting and I do believe a full game could be fun.
Good luck with the project!
Post by
manutoo
Benzene
,
thanks !
Izichial
,
thanks for your comments !
1+ I just updated the Alpha with the possibility to invert the mouse vertical axis in the Controls menu ; you should be able to continue your game from the last Auto Sav (that was done at the end of your last fight)
2+ I added this in a dialog : "By the way, if a party member loses all of their Health Points, they'll stay unconscious till the end of the fight ; it's not possible to heal them or revive them during that time." . It follows the no-party-member-death trend of some RPG games.
3+ the dps were actually same for both weapons ; the advantage of the Captain's Sword is that it's slower, so it gives more damages with the abilities ; but I just slightly raised its dps so it won't be confusing anymore
4+ that'd take 32 keys or combinations ; you'd play with 1-8 , and the following key rows under ? Or you'd prefer always 1-8 and use modifier key (ie: shift, alt and control) ?
5+ I could allow to raise the HUD size, but it's important to see the bottom part of the screen as well (to notice & grab items on the floor, see low enemies), so I'm not sure what's the best option here...
Post by
Izichial
1) Much appreciated! Went and finished the level now, took just over 30 minutes. I think I managed to head almost directly to the exit though, and at one point I found a pressure plate I weighed down with the paladin's old sword (that I had replaced with the captain's sword)
before
I found any stones.
2) I had a few party members fall unconscious this time around as well (started from beginning on latest version) and I think now that I ran into a bug the first time, since the tank never woke up from unconscious in over 5 minutes.
3) Fair enough.
4) Isn't it possible to keep numpad for movement and use regular number keys for abilities? I don't know if Windows can tell the difference from the keyboard input. If not it'd still be nice to be able to rebind numbers to abilities for people like me who'd likely never use the numbers for movement due to using mouse look + wasd.
I had a few variants in mind to how abilities and keybinds could be handled. The first is to start with no default keybinds for abilities but let people pick what to bind freely from all party members' abilities. One way to do this that several addons that modify the action bar in WoW uses is an option that when pressed takes you to the main view (or it could simply be a button next to inventory etc.) letting you click each ability to get a prompt to what to bind it to, with a button to exit keybinding mode.
The second is to have keybinds for one bar (greatly reducing the maximum number of binds needed), but letting you select which party member that is active with something like F1-F4.
That said, binds really isn't a big issue due to ability queueing. Consider it a quality of life thing that probably isn't necessary to deal with at this stage of development unless you really want to. :p
5) I was thinking to raise the party UI slightly above the bottom edge of the screen and make it slightly translucent (say 80% opacity). You could also add a prompt for when mobs drop items.
The comment was mainly about party member portraits, the size of the ability bars is fine. Perhaps make "unit frames" for the party a rectangle with the same height as the current portraits - that would also give you more space underneath the party member's unit frame for buffs / debuffs (I think it can currently only show two?). You could then move the health and mana bars into the unit frame and you'd wind up with a bigger clickable area for each party member, more space for buffs and debuffs and bigger health / mana bars at very little extra screen space compared to how it looks now. If it's unclear I can throw together a UI mockup for what I had in mind if you want.
Another thing that occurred to me was that the feedback on ability cooldowns is a bit unclear. It could be due to the global cooldown sweep not being entirely reliable (sometimes it resets partway through) but regardless it's sometimes hard to tell when an ability is on cooldown and when it's just the global cooldown.
I had a few other ideas but I don't want to overwhelm you, haha. I used to mod games a long time ago and tend to go into game design mode out of old habit when faced with things like this. :p If you feel like putting up with an unfiltered stream of random ideas and comments without having to check this thread my steam and gmail is the same as my username here on Wowhead.
Edit:
I did find a small oversight / exploit - if there are mobs on the other side of a portcullis, Thunder Clap and the Paladins Swipe could still hit them through it (managed to kill two Frost Giants this way). Single target attacks were blocked by the portcullis.
Post by
manutoo
Izichial
,
1) the stone is just before the portcullis, but the lighting is too low there, you're not the only one to have missed it... >_<
2) might be a bug with the aggro/combat state ; I already noticed some strange things and fixed those, but I guess I missed some other ones
4) I was talking about 1-8 keys above qwertyui ; as you said, some pep like to play with wasd so the positioning of the shortcuts could be problematic in some case.
Anyway, I won't do it right now, but I'll surely add it later on now that you made think about it, so your input was valuable ! ;-)
5) If you don't mind and it's fast to do, I'd very like to see the mockup, as I'm not sure how it'd be.
And yes, right now, it can show only 2 buff/debuff ; it'd show additional ones on mouse-over, though.
I think I could add a scale & transparent bottom UI sliders, so it'd match different user tastes.
6) you can see the current ability remaining cooldown in its tooltip ; maybe I could add the remaining global CD there ?
Also, there's the auto-attack CD which acts as a shorter GCD, and can be redirected to a newly clicked ability, if clicked before the hit occurred.
7) You can send me all ideas you want, if you don't mind writing them, I won't mind reading them ! ;-)
This thread is ok with me (making it visible more long time may attract some more testers! :) ), but if you prefer email, it's fine with me as well. => contact (at) managames com
Just be sure that it fits the game genre ; if you're going into MMO, PvP, or open world stuff, I won't be able to do it..! :-P
8) Thanks to your report, I'll fix that exploit !
Post by
fosley
I played through it and had a few thoughts.
First, thanks for not forcing me to look through some tiny 70° field of view. Not sure what the exact FoV is, but it's good for my 1080p setup. The grid-based movement makes mouselook a little odd, but I got used to it pretty quickly. I like the fast-paced movement through the dungeon, and I really enjoyed fireballs flying at my face when I went blazing through a little too fast. I also like the little touch where the hand-and-a-half swords automatically change from 1-hand to 2-hand and back depending on whether a shield is equipped.
Now, a couple issues I found while playing through.
- If a monster dies while abilities are queued, the queued abilities never do anything, making it appear the characters have abilities queued, when they really don't, and shortening the effective queue by however many abilities are still queued for the dead monster. You could have them automatically redirect to the next monster (lowest health, left->right->back left->back right, next monster clicked on, etc.), or you could just clear them completely as soon as the monster dies. (Edit: I do know I can right-click them to remove them from the queue, I just feel it shouldn't be necessary.)
- If I'm holding right-mouse to look around, then hit escape to open the menu, the mouse pointer is still invisible.
- This is preference, but I really prefer it when the escape button closes open menus before opening the main menu. Several of the BethSoft games have your behavior, and it's been a major source of frustration for me.
- A hotkey for the inventory would be very nice, as well as hotkeys to switch between active characters while in the inventory.
- When I clicked "open dungeon" in the map editor, everything shifted left like a menu was opening, and none of the menu items worked any more. However, no menu showed up, and I had to alt-f4 to get out.
- It would be nice if there were a faster way to regain health and mana while not in combat. It's annoying standing around for a couple minutes healing everyone then regaining mana after a fight. However, this could also be a result of just having bad gear and low levels.
- Not sure what the limitations of your engine are, but the dungeons seemed a bit boring in terms of complexity. I realize that a dungeon isn't really supposed to have flowers and paintings and dancing fairies along the walls, but the lack of any small details makes it feel rather meh visually.
- Touching on what Izichial mentioned, hotkeys would be nice. Maybe have it so F1 through F4 select a character and light up the selected bar, then 1 through 8 use the corresponding ability on the highlighted bar. Abilities that target other characters could be used by selecting the character with the ability, pressing the hotkey for that ability, then pressing the function key associated with the target character. So if character 2 is a healer, and character 1 is a tank, you could press F2 to select the healer, 1 to select the healing spell, then F1 to cast it at the tank. Pausing the game works, but it's more fun when you can quickly attack the enemy without having to pause. I also just dislike clicking ability buttons.
- Selecting the enemies on the rear rank is a bit finicky. I'm not sure if the hit detection needs to be better or I'm just not understanding the targeting system. It could also be helpful to have some kind of tab-targeting that cycles through the enemies in some preset order.
- I'm not sure I like how the warrior and paladin have no resource at all. Some kind of stamina bar might be nice to implement for non-magic classes, although I don't see a need to go all out with different resources for different classes.
- A hotkey to advance through (or skip) dialogue would be nice, instead of having to click the button each time. I like the Diablo 3 method, where space advances to the next line of dialogue, and escape skips the conversation completely.
- I'm guessing the entire save system is going to get a rework, but it would be nice if the message telling me the quicksave was successful showed up while on the menu with the save button.
As for the game itself, it seems to be fairly well done so far, but I don't think it's really my type of game. It was kind of fun running around whacking some bad guys, but the puzzle sequences seemed more tedious than challenging, and I feel like it would get rather repetitive before the game ended. I didn't time myself, but I'd estimate it was right in your target range of 30-60 minutes, including some time I spent trying to figure out how the game worked (my last save was at 24 minutes, and I still had 5 mob packs to kill before making my way to the final boss).
Post by
manutoo
fosley
,
thanks for your detailed report !
0- Yes, the FOV is 100° on 4/3 monitors, and 133° on 16/9 monitors, which is slightly above the average FPS games.
1- did you play with the Build 3 of the Alpha ? The Build number is shown on bottom right of the Main Menu if it's the #3, and nothing is shown for earlier Builds.
Normally, the ability queue of your toon is applied to the next attacked target once the current target is dead. If it doesn't, then it's a bug... :-S
The next target is not selected automatically, as it could be an important choice to be made (especially for the aggro), plus it could lead to waste an ability CD for not the desired result.
2- fixed invisible pointer
3- Hum, I just checked and the Escape key always closes the menus if any menu is opened, and opens the main in-game menu if no menu is opened... So I'm guessing it's coz you didn't test the Build #3 ..?
4 & 8 & 11 - yup, it looks like I have to add hot keys soon, it's becoming a popular request ! ;-)
5- I checked and the DevTest dungeon cannot be loaded : I guess I forgot to copy the latest map files before doing the Build ; the Alpha Dungeon works though
6- you'll have potions, but usually you shouldn't finish the fights without too much HP loss (except for the tank) ; I guess it's harder coz you were learning the game and there's no difficulty settings for the moment to make it easier... It may need some tuning anyways ; maybe I could add a "Rest" mode...
7- I'm hoping to get some chains & other stuff on the walls to bring a bit of visual variety, but at this point I did only the stuff that was needed gameplay wise
9- yup, Tab key could be neat to select the enemies in the back, I'll look into that ! I'll also check the hit box, it may be too big thus the front ones cover the back ones too much
10- Hum, I get your point... The paladin might get a few Mana driven abilities... The warrior could be Rage driven also ; I'll think more about this when I'll come to design the classes & their abilities
12- yup, it'll have some sort of feedback for the save ; I hacked the current system very quickly for the Alpha..! ;-)
13- I didn't put hard puzzles in the Alpha, coz I really didn't want testers to block on them (being able to solve or not hard puzzles is more a matter of Beta testing) ; full game will get smarter puzzles, although I'm still not decided if they'll be only for side bonus (ie: to get better gear) or to advance in the dungeon.
On another hand, I kinda liked the current puzzles : they're very simple, but require to understand the basics of handling the dungeon's mechanisms, plus a pinch of environment observation ; so I think I'll keep this style for the first levels, so people can learn & get into them without too much trouble.
Post by
manutoo
Hello,
here an update on the development of my Dungeon Crawler : I just finished the 2nd Alpha !
Here a new screenshot, that illustrates some of the changes in the GUI :
http://www.managames.com/Images/DungeonBreaker/2014-04-Alpha2-01_s.jpg
The goal of this Alpha 2 is to find a few people willing to do Beta testing during the development of the game.
It's important for these people to have :
- good analysis skills
- played at least some MMORPGs, and/or RPGs, and/or Dungeon Crawlers (preferably Dungeon Master from 1987, Might & Magic saga from the 90's, World of Warcraft, or Legend of Grimrock), or possibly some Hack and Slash games
- could do about 1 hour of test per month till end of this year (if only 50% of this, it's still ok, though)
I'll need mostly feedback on :
- level layout (ie: is it interesting to explore the dungeons, level after level)
- combat system (ie: is it fun & challenging)
- puzzles (ie: are they too hard or too easy)
- boss fights (ie: do they bring a plus)
So if you're interested, let me know in this topic or here (if you prefer private reporting) :
http://www.managames.com/mail_en/?subject=Dungeon%20Breaker%20Beta%20Testing
.
Download link for the 2nd Alpha
, featuring a test level that should offer you between 30 minutes to 1 hour of gameplay :
http://www.managames.com/download.php?DungeonBreaker_woha2.rar
If you have any comment about this Alpha, don't hesitate to write them in this topic ! :)
Notes:
- you need a good 3D card to play it ; a 6 years old $300 card, a 4 years old $200 card, or a 2 year old $100 card should be ok
- if the FPS are low, lower the quality in the config tool at start, and then press 'Esc' during game and lower "View Range" in "Video Options"
New features since Alpha 1:
- a bunch of new stuff in the editor, but only 1 made it to the test level : a secret door ! (but almost all mechanisms are in the DevTest dungeon, if you want to check it)
- enemies are smarter, can do more stuff (strafe, attack from far, ...)
- the final boss fight is actually a boss fight ! That means it takes more time to kill him and it's somewhat hard
- semi-random loot : some enemies now drop random loot for your party to equip
- attributes & secondary attributes
- talent trees (at least the basis of them, the talents themselves still need to be done)
- chat log
- auto-mapping
- HP & mana potions
- Difficulty levels (you can change it anytime, in case you have trouble to kill the boss ;) )
- And some other little things
So now the game engine is done at ~90%. It mostly misses :
- all handling of special abilities & talents
- hotkeys
- color highlighting in tool-tip (bad stuff in red, good stuff in green, etc...)
- a few little stuff here & there
- slightly better animation system for the enemies
And of course, it still misses all the content :
- some decent dungeon environments (I did the current ones and I'm not an artist, in case you didn't notice :-P )
- 20 different kind of enemies
- a bunch of bosses
- a ton of equipment and enchantments
- 20 levels to explore
- 4 classes & all the talents & abilities for your party members
- menus
- more sound FX
- a good bunch of visual FX
Post by
Janzo
Any chance you are still looking for testers?
Post by
manutoo
Janzo
,
yes, still looking !
And I'll be always looking from times to times for new testers till the game is finished, as it's good to get some fresh new look once in a while.
Post by
manutoo
Hello,
here's a little update about what becomes of my game (in case some of you have been wondering :) ) : it's (nearly) done !
I'm pretty happy with the result. Of course, it's not WoW, but the combat system is really neat and reminds me a bit the intense battles I got while playing WoW.
So I put it in Steam Greenlight and it'd be very kind of you to vote for it to help me get it on Steam..! :)
Here the Greenlight page with trailer & screenshots =>
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=489556661
.
Thanks in advance for your help !
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