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Wowhead Mods Necro policy
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Post by
lankybrit
Hi,
This has recently been in the forefront lately with a couple of Nerco-ed threads.
The policy is that if the thread is still relevant, it won't be closed or anything even if it's a Necro.
I believe this the WRONG policy.
There is no reason anyone ever NEEDS to Necro a thread. They can simply start a new one with the same topic, even saying something like 'Hey, I saw an old thread about XXXXX and I think now that.........'.
So, I believe they should change the Necro policy to say it is simply not allowed. This will ensure threads stay on topic and people don't get side-tracked by whether it's a Necro or not.
Your thoughts?
Cheers.
Post by
Kinsfire
I've never completely understood the loathing for waking up dead threads, myself. If the information is there, why repeat it endlessly through multiple threads? (Clearly, if it is version specific, such as things that only applied to v 4.x, then necro-ing the thread is rather useless.)
I've seen this on multiple forums (forae? *grin*), where thread necro is tightly controlled, and a search on those will return multiple threads that tell you exactly the same information.
Why waste the disk space saying the same thing fifteen times, when one thread will do?
Post by
CalaelenDT
I've never completely understood the loathing for waking up dead threads, myself. If the information is there, why repeat it endlessly through multiple threads? (Clearly, if it is version specific, such as things that only applied to v 4.x, then necro-ing the thread is rather useless.)
I've seen this on multiple forums (forae? *grin*), where thread necro is tightly controlled, and a search on those will return multiple threads that tell you exactly the same information.
Why waste the disk space saying the same thing fifteen times, when one thread will do?
Say someone comes here with a question, and they use the search function and find an old thread about the same thing. They either:
A. find the answer they are looking for in the thread, and therefor have no reason to reply to the thread and bump it.
B. don't find their answer, meaning the thread didn't contain what they sought, and they can make a new thread without "creating multiple threads with the exact same information".
I personally dislike bumping old threads as 99.9% of the time it doesn't add anything but confusion.
Post by
asakawa
A thread like "What are the best stats for a Ret Paladin?" posted in 2008 will almost certainly be locked.
A thread like "What's your favourite mount?" posted in 2008 will likely not.
If a thread contains no outdated information and there is no more recent thread on the same topic then it's fine to post to it.
I don't see why this would cause confusion. The only issue I really see is that one might read through some old posts in a thread and want to reply to a poster. Personally I suggest to just reply. Forums are an open and public discussion so you're sharing your ideas on something that's been said. It's not necessarily an issue if the poster that inspired your comment never sees it.
The idea of locking any "old" content no matter what its age causes a lot of issues such as what does "old" really mean?
A week?
A month?
Off the front page of the forum?
A year?
A previous expansion of the game?
If we were to decide that a month is the cut off point then what happens after 30 days has passed that makes that thread worthless?
For us, we don't want to shut down any genuine, interesting, fun discussion. As long as nobody is being misled by an old thread and as long as discussion on the same topic is going in the same thread then we're happy and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be.
I also want to reply to Lankybrit's description of the issue with necrobumps: "This will ensure threads stay on topic and people don't get side-tracked by whether it's a Necro or not.".
Users need to take responsibility for that. We are quite clear about 'reporting and not replying' and about derailing threads. If this is the major issue with older threads being posted to then the solution for users not to do that.
Post by
lankybrit
If someone sees an old 'What's your favorite Mount' thread that stopped a couple of years ago, wouldn't it be better to have a thread with:
'What's your favorite Mount now?"
starting with - Now we have just had a massive increase of the Mounts in MoP, do those really trump the old Mounts? So, what's your favorite Mount now.
Not just adding - my favorite is XYZ to that old thread.
To your last point: How are all users supposed to know about the policy, and what's a good necro or bad necro? You'll still get tons of 'OMG what a necro' on what you consider a good necro.
Oh well. I've said my piece. You're not going to change it, so c'est la vie.
Cheers.
Post by
asakawa
Well I wouldn't necessarily be against someone making a new thread in the circumstances you mention but we're talking about cases where someone
has
posted a new comment on an old thread and you're saying that thread should be locked down. I simply don't see what is gained by doing that while I do see what is lost when policies like that are in place.
Users don't need to know about our policy on necros they simply need to not make off topic comments in threads. If they suspect something needs moderator attention then they should report it. Honestly I take off-topic and derailing posts far more seriously than an honest necro since, even when a necro is problematic and in need of moderation, it is incredibly rare that they're done maliciously.
Oh well. I've said my piece. You're not going to change it, so c'est la vie. Please don't think like that. This is a discussion and the way that the mod team handles things changes due to discussions like this all the time. I'll give my opinions and I'll give "official" explanations for why a policy is one way or another but having salient points raised by forum users gives us something to go away and discuss as a team. It's fine to tell me that you think I'm wrong in my opinion. If the other mods think you're right then things might change or if there's room for compromise then things can change in more subtle ways.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
lankybrit
A simply locking of a thread with:
'Please don't necro old threads. If you feel the topic is still relevant, please start a new thread on the topic. Thank you.'
would be fine, as is done on tons of other forums.
Cheers.
Post by
asakawa
That has an effect on the user in question who feels berated for simply wanting to talk about something they're interested in. It also gives a wider impression that the forum is an uninviting place generally. If we only get to a topic after there's been a necro followed by a few on-topic replies then we're shutting down some genuine discussion between users which is something we ought to be fostering.
That's what I see as the downsides to locking them but what is gained?
Post by
Izichial
While I'd personally prefer a stricter approach to necro'd threads I suspect that it might be counterproductive on Wowhead because the forums get so little traffic. The risk is that instead of having two threads with twenty replies each over three months you end up splitting that into five threads with eight replies each or whatever it may be and end up losing the sort of critical mass in amount of opinions that makes for a good discussion for the smaller gain of removing a few posts that weren't strictly relevant.
The one type of threads I would like to see the necro policy applied differently to is personal help threads outside the help forum that keep getting necro'd long after the OP has stopped replying or even visiting Wowhead. While some replies might contain useful hints there's generally speaking very little discussion going on, everything is directed to the OP who will never see it and specifically tailored to whatever information he or she provided. Unless the thread was about something very specific chances are that people who require similar help won't ever find it, especially with the search being what it is.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=206030
is the most recent example I can think of.
Post by
Adamsm
As someone who routinely bumps up old L&RP threads, I'd hate if a 30 page was locked because it's 'old'; I admit I'm one of the people who do report necros, but only if they are either off topic, someone picking a fight with someone else, or just responding to out of date information.
There isn't a need to make a new thread for every single thought and idea people have, and there are a large number of threads where fluff questions can easily go and still be current.
Post by
hatman555
> The policy is that if the thread is still relevant, it won't be closed or anything even if it's a Necro.
> I believe this the WRONG policy.
> There is no reason anyone ever NEEDS to Necro a thread. They can simply start a new one with the same topic, even saying something like 'Hey, I saw an old thread about XXXXX and I think now that.........'.
> So, I believe they should change the Necro policy to say it is simply not allowed. This will ensure threads stay on topic and people don't get side-tracked by whether it's a Necro or not.
I believe that our current policy of locking necro's is fine, I think that different mods handle things different ways. I deal with Necro's by deleting the necro post, and then locking the thread. This pushes the topic back down to the graves. If the user who necro'ed the topic comes back, he will not be able to repost in that topic, and will either create a new thread, or post in a different topic. It's not as aggressive as "Don't post in this old thread, and now I will lock it so you can do nothing". Deleting his post, and returning the thread to the grave results in the same effect.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
asakawa
Regarding Izichial's post:
I agree that the situation you're describing is more complex than more general discussion stuff. However, even in the situation where someone has asked for specific help I don't really see why replies that the OP will never see are a
bad
thing. I see why there's potential for them never being useful to anyone but there's also potential for them to be incredibly useful to someone. If it's good advice for a problem that still exists in the game then what harm is done by the post and thread remaining?
Looking through the example thread you posted, there's only one post I see as problematic there and that's the post that brought it from September to December. Three months isn't very long but they're not really saying very much. If that were reported as a necro then it would take some consideration. However, with hindsight we can see that leaving that thread open has led to lots of other useful posts being added and with a thread as general as "Why do I suck?" the info is bound to be useful to far more people than just the OP.
Post by
AnrDaemon
A simply locking of a thread with:
'Please don't necro old threads. If you feel the topic is still relevant, please start a new thread on the topic. Thank you.'
would be fine, as is done on tons of other forums.
Cheers.
Just because you want things this way doesn't make them right, or, more generally, acceptable, in each specific case.
Post by
lankybrit
A simply locking of a thread with:
'Please don't necro old threads. If you feel the topic is still relevant, please start a new thread on the topic. Thank you.'
would be fine, as is done on tons of other forums.
Cheers.
Just because you want things this way doesn't make them right, or, more generally, acceptable, in each specific case.
Well, obviously it's IMHO. I just started this thread to see what other people thought about it.
Cheers.
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