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Guardian Druid - Taking far more damage after the changes?
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Post by
escapades
Simple Question.
I seem to be taking far far more damage than previous to the patch. Why?
Ok so I know there have been changes, and moreover it takes time to get used to such changes. and i did expect a small difference in the amount of damage taken. But certainly not this much difference.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u74c8ikbxitur783/sum/damageTaken/?s=2532&e=2685
- Post patch damage taken on Ultraxion 10 hc.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1tovdj5xl9ztcz7b/sum/damageTaken/?s=3651&e=3849
- Pre Patch damage taken for Ultraxion 10 HC
Now that is a difference I didn't expect.
Post by
dragonrom
yeah i have been noticing similar with a lot of tanks. If you recall they were talking about making tanks more dependent on their own survival, rather than threat and such. So i have a feeling that they are making tanks take a little extra damage to fit with the new cooldowns and buffs to cooldowns they have been given, making them more able to keep themselves alive, rather than just relying on a healer.
Post by
Pathstrider
I felt that I was taking more dmg. Now that I am used to using my new defensive cd's when ready, it doesn't seem as bad
Post by
Thror
Your Savage Defense uptime is not great. You are popping it once, right after you taunt, but you could have used it more.
Bears current mitigation model is balanced around the optimal use of Savage Defense, their high armour and dodge, and their self healing from Frenzied Regeneration. You might take 300k more damage than in the previous patch, but you are supposed to make up for it with 300k self healing.
You used Frenzied Regeneration
twice
over the entire fight.
You only used Barkskin twice.
You have not used Enrage, Berserk or Incarnation (major Rage generating cooldowns) a single time over the entire fight.
There is your damage taken. Thanks for providing the log, it was helpful, keep doing that in the future.
Post by
escapades
Thanks for the help and info. I'll try and use the information to adapt it into my play. Apprecaite thehelp and information.
Post by
rogal
Thror - are you glyphing FR or any of the other defensive cooldowns? I'm trying to decide if I should.
Thanks.
Post by
Thror
To be honest, the only glyphs that I really like are Fae Silence and Rebirth.
The FR glyph would obviously be a great choice if it would consistently provide you with more healing gained than you would get from the instant self heal of unglyphed FR. The slight annoyance is that it sets the rage requirement of FR to flat 60 rage. I would say this could end up being a cookie cutter glyph for many fights once we are in later tiers of MoP and our gear grants us solid Rage generation (likewise, if you do some serious raiding now, it might be handy, since we are at the apex of stat inflation of the previous expansion ).
Survival Instincts might be situationally useful, but I do not know where I would use it now. Maybe on Impales, if your SI cooldown is not matching Impales very well, you could pick it up, and you do not need a long duration to eat an Impale anyway. I definitely would not use SI on something that keeps constantly attacking you, like, uhhhh, Nefarian (what an old ass example).
Might of Ursoc... /shrug. That would make it like, 5 minutes CD? I don't like 5 minute CD's.
Post by
991705
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Post by
986144
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Post by
chelgoth
Savage Defense doesn't last 42 seconds; it lasts 6 seconds.
Post by
Quether
He didn't say it lasted for 42 seconds, only that you can chaincast it to last for that long.
edit:
Also i havent noticed any difference with or without last defender of azeroth buff on the fight, not that i was looking too hard.
Post by
Thror
Hey there Cantoluna. I haven't seen you for quite a while.
Post by
Quether
Hellu ^^ Been sneaking around on mmo reading stuff, much prefer their layout on patch news and class changes. And it's been so quiet here :o How ya doin'?
Post by
937808
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aadramelekh
It's interesting what they have done, including all these active cooldowns for avoidance and healing, but I find it kind of bullsh*t to be honest. The thing I hate the most is Savage Defense. When it is up, I have 70% dodge. I take almost no hits. And guess what, the healer isn't on his toes anymore and the next second after SD falls off, I find myself staring at 1/3 or 1/4 HP bar, popping some emergency CD.
Bullsh*t! Give me more mitigation, not avoidance! More mitigation means I still take damage, but a bit less than usual, and as such the healer is still keeping an eye on my HP. But 70% dodge means ugly damage spikes and that upsets me =/
Frenzied Regeneration... It's a pretty nice tool this one, but I find it a bit lackluster. I mean, healing for 24K damage when I have 185K HP? DAFUQ is that? At least make it some 20% healing or so (37K heal at 185K HP). At the same rage cost, if we are supposed to use both SD and FR from time to time to balance damage taken, at least make FR worth it. And with a 60 rage cost... At least make it cost 50 rage so I can use it twice with a full rage bar if it's such a low healing ability.
I think in MoP I'll focus mainly on stamina and mastery as stats to stack. 20% stamina bonus from Bear Form, another 5% from leather spec plus 6% from HotW means 33.56% more stamina. That seems like a fair game to me. And so far with my mediocre gear, average level 390 and no armor trinket or enchant, I have about 70.5% damage reduction in bear form. And I don't have as much mastery as I could have. So it only seems to me that stamina + mastery are the best bets.
But even so, the issue is there, I am taking more damage than before. As I noticed a few days ago, in a recent beta build they improved Thick Hide to provide an additional 12% physical damage reduction in addition to what it already does (6% reduced crit chance on received attacks, 330% bonus armor and 25% magic damage reduction). Now all we have to do is wait until MoP comes. So far it's all fun and games since most of us already outgear average content (like heroic dungeons or so). But when the new content arrives, that 12% extra DR will be more than welcome.
Although I still maintain my opinion that Savage Defense is a pretty stupid mechanic as it is. A bit more passive dodge chance and a bit less active dodge chance on SD would make things better. But I guess we'll see how it all goes in the new dungeons and raids =/
Post by
Thunderbro
I have to agree with Aadra here, Savage Defense is making bear's incoming damage way too spikey if we're constantly tanking something. However, I do find Frenzied Regen pretty useful. You don't need to have the full 60 rage to benefit from the heal, which is nice. The rage costs for either are ridiculous though. I hate having to pick between healing myself or a (greatly) increased chance at dodging the incoming attacks.
With that said, I'm going to reforge to mainly Crit and gem for Stam in MoP. The reasoning behind Crit is because Crits will make up the bulk of our rage generation. Each crit from auto-attack or mangle generates 15 rage. Futhermore, we get 50% increased crit rating while in bear form. With all that crit comes more rage, and then we won't have to fight between Savage Defense and Frenzied Regen. I'll be gemming for stamina to hopefully alleviate the spiky-ness of bear tanking.
@Arczen: I have different views on the talents/glyphs you chose (not to say yours are wrong or anything):
While I miss Feral Charge, I picked up
Feline Swiftness
because I find that 15% increased movement speed all the time is more useful. This one is a personal choice.
Cenarion Ward
doesn't help if you're about to die. Plus, if you want constant healing, pick up
Nature's Swiftness
; you can use it to cast a nice heal on yourself every minute, you can Brez without having to leave bear form, and you can have a mini "OH &*!@" button.
Renewal
gives us large "OH *!@#" button, which is what I'll use for progession fights.
Charred Glyph
is a poor choice. You really shouldn't be using Maul at all. While we hardly have enough rage between using Savage Defense and Frenzied Regen, the cost of Maul makes it almost unusable.
Charred Glyph
would only be useful on fights where you take a huge, short spike of damage less than every 3 minutes. I would not suggest it for general use.
I would definitely suggest to any guardian druid to pick up
Charred Glyph
. The ranged silence is something we've been waiting for years for. The only other glyph I would suggest for guardians to pick up for general use is
Charred Glyph
for obvious reasons. This leaves one slot left that doesn't really matter. Decide depending on the fight. When no specific glyphs are of value on a fight, I use
Charred Glyph
but
Charred Glyph
could be useful as well.
Post by
Thror
Since we are talking talent choices, mine are:
Feline Swiftness
- I prefer being faster all the time over charging. Would switch it out for Charge on some fights if I found it better.
Renewal
- A pretty reliable oh !@#$ button. Nature Swiftness is nice, but I am way too used to safe BRezzing to find it awesome.
Typhoon
- Is an AoE interrupt for mobs that are affected by the knockback. It can also knock enemies out of areas you do not want them standing in, which is really handy. I wish I had this crap on heroic Anub'arak.
Incarnation
- No brainer. Too much burst potential in this one, and also helps to generate tons of rage. Soul of the Forest is not bad at Rage generation over very long fights, but I prefer Incarnation as most fights I engage in
at this moment
are short as hell.
Ursol's Vortex
- I honestly do not give a damn about the 75 tier talents. Disorienting sounds cool until you see how many trash mobs are immune to it in MoP heroics (I have a glyph on my Monk that disorients enemies and like all the %^&* is immune to it.), and currently I am just kinda fooling around with the Vortex cause it has a nice graphic. /shrug
Heart of the Wild
- will be my lvl 90 choice. For the passive stats.
Frenzied Regeneration... It's a pretty nice tool this one, but I find it a bit lackluster. I mean, healing for 24K damage when I have 185K HP? DAFUQ is that? At least make it some 20% healing or so (37K heal at 185K HP). At the same rage cost, if we are supposed to use both SD and FR from time to time to balance damage taken, at least make FR worth it. And with a 60 rage cost... At least make it cost 50 rage so I can use it twice with a full rage bar if it's such a low healing ability.
FR scales with Attack Power and therefore scales with Vengeance. You just haven't done any fights that stack your Vengeance enough. I was going through a bunch of logs recently and I saw it healing for up to 65k pretty often.
Post by
Gnomespwn
Ok, as I see it, FR is meant for caster bosses, while SD for physical dmg bosses. Makes sense? Since, as was mentioned above, you can't really use both.
Post by
Thror
Well it is pretty logical that SD does jack squat against bosses who do 0 physical damage, and you just spam FR on those. But most caster bosses also do a hefty portion of physical damage through auto attacks... in which case it is good to strike a good balance between SD uptime and FR self healing.
Post by
226992
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