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MoP : Talent tree.

Post by WaffleIs4eating

I have a question regarding the new talent tree.
Do we get two trees, the one we're currently using and the new one? Or will the old one be removed and we just get the new talent tree?
Thanks
Waffle

Post by felhunter

as far i understood it, the old talent tree will be gone.

however we keep the specialization part of it. and ill assume 1 abilty tied too the specialization.
and i think i picked something up that certain abilities were only learn able if you were a spefic spec.

but i cant find it back so quickly in all those blizzcon posts.

Edit: and i already found some stuff about the new talent system:
Talents 2.0

Major change to class talent trees, and this is a new phase of development for the talent system.
The goal is to have you sit to another next to another combat rogue, and this combat rogue will actually have different talents than you do!
Character customization was the original point of talents in the first place but overtime cookie cutter builds dominated the scene.

New Model

Class Abilities are available to all specs in the class. All warriors learn heroic strike for example.
Spec Abilities are available to certain specs. Only Arms warriors learn Slam. Retribution and Protection paladin get Hammer of the Righteous, etc ...
Talents are optional skills/bonuses available to all specs. Any warrior can choose Throwdown, and you will have to pick between 3 different crowd control abilities on this level of talent.
Level 15 - You pick your first talent. For example, warriors have to pick between Juggernaut / Double Time / Warbringer and players will have to pick which mobility ability they want to pick depending on their playstyle.

Talent Philosophy

Access to stuff you never could before. If you were a subtlety rogue you knew you weren't going to get something like Killing Spree. And because talents are going to be all in the same tree, you're going to be able to combine them in a way that you never could before. For example, any rogue can have Shadowstep!
Several new, overpowered (feeling) talents will be added to the game.
If you don't see a beloved talent in your new talents list, don't worry, it's probably something we gave your spec as a baseline. For example all Holy priests now have Circle of Healing.
No mandatory talents anymore.
Every choice should be hard but fun!

Post by Hakunamatata

They're doing this to make every single character unique but imho they're trying to achieve the impossible. Glyphs were originally intended for the very same reason, yet the standarts (or 'requirements') of certain specs (such as tanking and dps) still exist and will propably to contunue to exist until WoW dies.

Post by Woodrun

This is how I read it

Additional spec abilities will become available as characters levels. Some of these may be existing talents, while others may be older core abilities that are more situational.

The 6 levels of tier type talents are not that only talents that we will get.
How this will all pan out in the end, we will have to wait and see.

Post by Porcell

This is how I read it

Additional spec abilities will become available as characters levels. Some of these may be existing talents, while others may be older core abilities that are more situational.

The 6 levels of tier type talents are not that only talents that we will get.
How this will all pan out in the end, we will have to wait and see.

No, those 6 tiers of talents every 15 levels are the only actual Talents you get and replace the talent trees. However, there are now three "types" of skills/abilities/talents/spells/passives: Core, Spec, and Talent:

Core Class:
You pick your class and you get these abilities. These are abilities that are common and define the class. An example for Warriors:
Level 1: Battle Stance
Level 5: Heroic Strike
Level 10: Defensive Stance
Level 10: Parry (Passive)
Level 15: Rend
Level 25: Booming Voice (Passive)

Spec Abilities:
You pick your spec and get these abilities automatically. These are the mandatory skills/talents that define the spec. These would be a combination of currently trainable things, as well as the Mandatory abilities and passives from the current Talent trees. An example for Warriors:
Protection:
Level 1: Shield Slam
Level 15: Devastate
Level 25: Field Dressing (Passive)
Level 35: Toughness (Passive)

Fury:
Level 1: BloodThirst
Level 10: Battle Trance (Passive)
Level 20: Raging Blow
Level 35: Titan's Grip (Passive)

Talents:
These are the 6 tiers of 3 abilities per tier that you unlock every 15 levels. These are the "utility" talents you have currently that you now have the freedom to choose. Things that define your play style or that you can tweak for slight advantages depending on what you are doing. Things like "Do I want a 1 minute active cooldown or a 1.5 minute passive cooldown" or "Do I want an AoE damage ability or so I want a slightly less powerful AoE that stuns, or do I want a cooldown that buffs my personal damage."

That's it. Core Abilities are what every Warrior should have, Spec Abilities is what ever Prot or Fury or Arms Warrior should have, and Talents are what you get to choose based on how you want to play your character.

Post by TheReal

...and in the end, there will be a "best for X situation" build and that's how people will spec. It's inevitable, yet Blizzard thinks they can program it away.

Post by dslg604t

I'm already having trouble choosing between a few talents. Not all of them give a measurable increase in DPS/HPS/damage reduction. For example, tier 2 for paladins. It's hell confusing.

Post by Nathanyal

I'm already having trouble choosing between a few talents. Not all of them give a measurable increase in DPS/HPS/damage reduction. For example, tier 2 for paladins. It's hell confusing.

That's what they're meant to do. Each talent will offer something, but not enough to warrant picking it over the other 2. For dps classes it'll be easier as all of them will be utility mainly and not have to worry about healing/tanking.

For this druids seem to get shafted the most. But lets not forget they haven't even started testing this in the alpha, much less on a beta. They will have plenty of time to make it easier as well as fix some of the talents.

The ones that complain about this being "more cookie cutter than anything" haven't put much thought into it. The way it is now there are talents that every class will pick no matter what. What they plan on doing is just adding it as an ability they will get when choosing that spec, such as frost mages getting a 3% crit since all of them choose now anyway.

Post by Porcell

The ones that complain about this being "more cookie cutter than anything" haven't put much thought into it. The way it is now there are talents that every class will pick no matter what. What they plan on doing is just adding it as an ability they will get when choosing that spec, such as frost mages getting a 3% crit since all of them choose now anyway.

This is exactly the point that they made during the presentation at BlizzCon. You don't really have a choice right now.

Using Combat Rogues for an example. Go ahead and open up the talent calculator and pick Combat Rogue. You will spend your first 18 points without making a decision. Precision, ISS, ISD, Aggression, Revealing Strike, Lightning Reflexes, and Combat Potency are all 100% mandatory talents. All of these talents will be changed into "Spec Abilities" under Talent 2.0 system. (Or somehow otherwise balanced in with the changes. You won't necessarily have an ability called "Improved Sinister Strike")

Now that you have 18 points, you have your first choice. 2/2 Imp Recuperate, 2/2 Imp Sprint, 2/2 Improved Kick, 2/2 Reinforced Leather, 2/2 Imp Gouge, or 2/2 Blade Twisting. Once you pick one of these and are at 20 talent points, you pick up 3 more mandatory talents in AR and Savage Combat. You have the optional 2/2 in Throwing Spec to go along with the previous ones, and then finish out the tree with the final 6 points.

Your last 10 points are divided among Lethality, Coup de Grace, Ruthlessness, and Relentless Strikes; all DPS talents and mandatory. The "choice" comes in whichever one happens to Sim out to a partially higher percentage.

So rogues currently. Their talent "choice" is essentially 37 of 41 talent points are placed in mandatory DPS increasing talents, and you are told: "Pick 2 from this list: IR, IS, IK, RL, IG, BT or TS (all listed above)" They get to choose 2 optional utility skills of 7 possible, depending on if they want self healing, sprint that removes roots, a kick silence, more armor, buff gouge, passive daze, or ranged silence. These are truly the only completely free choice you get in the rogue tree. Pick 2 out of 7 options.

I think you will find that ALL specs are extremely similar to this. You have only a couple -real- choices you can make without totally "screwing up" your character.

The new talent system fixes this. Now you get 6 actual real choices, AND you can change them depending on what you are doing. Yes of course there will be discussion over "Well on this fight Bladestorm is actually slightly better than Avatar" but they are still true choices.

MoP : Talent tree.

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