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10.2.7
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Unheeded Warning nerf
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Post by
yodadoe
blue post:
Unheeded Warning proc changed from 680 Weapon Damage to 1900 Attack Power.
Yes, it was recently changed via a hotfix. I was delayed a bit in updating the documented hotfixes and apologize for that.
In both PvP and PvE, it was scaling disproportionately for Feral druids, to the extent it's been more desirable than 4.2 items for a lot of players, including non-druids. We want the process of obtaining loot to still feel meaningful as new gear is released, so your character is still progressing in power along with the content to which the items are linked. This one just remained a little too good for its level and relative difficulty to obtain.
From what I've read online so far, this will put
Unheeded Warning
on par with other 359 trinkets. Anyone have a thought on whether
Ricket's Magnetic Fireball
might end up beating it out? It is a higher item level, after all... not too crazy of an idea.
Post by
Heckler
blue post:
Unheeded Warning proc changed from 680 Weapon Damage to 1900 Attack Power.
Yes, it was recently changed via a hotfix. I was delayed a bit in updating the documented hotfixes and apologize for that.
In both PvP and PvE, it was scaling disproportionately for Feral druids, to the extent it's been more desirable than 4.2 items for a lot of players, including non-druids. We want the process of obtaining loot to still feel meaningful as new gear is released, so your character is still progressing in power along with the content to which the items are linked. This one just remained a little too good for its level and relative difficulty to obtain.
From what I've read online so far, this will put
Unheeded Warning
on par with other 359 trinkets. Anyone have a thought on whether
Ricket's Magnetic Fireball
might end up beating it out? It is a higher item level, after all... not too crazy of an idea.
Mew is updated to include this change, and Unheeded Warning is now extremely lackluster, pretty much on par with Unsolvable Riddle &c. The highest two trinkets for my character (that I can get) sim'd as
Fluid Death
and
Ricket's Magnetic Fireball
(Both were
significantly
better than Unheeded -- perhaps that means a nerf is incoming for Fluid Death too, which definitely outperforms other 359's)-- and I also tested the Matrix Stabilizer, Hungerer and Ancient Petrified Seed (which I will never get) -- they were better, but not by a huge margin.
I've decided I'm going to try to make a complete trinket breakdown list (I'm going to use Foley's cat as my reference o.O). The above data may be wrong, I'll edit this in awhile
See bottom post for Sim results.
Also: That blue post irritates me. I basically see "We want people to stop thinking about anything, and just choose gear based on item level."
Post by
greywolfsage
Also: That blue post irritates me. I basically see "We want people to stop thinking about anything, and just choose gear based on item level."
Doesn't it feel kinda crappy when you realize, "oh look at this sweet new (insert slot here) thingy I got!" ... then you mull it over ... "oh, this thing is a POS compared to this one I had 8 months ago from a heroic."
Half the draw of raiding is getting the new powerful stuffz, but if its not giving you better things, you won't be staying long.
Post by
Heckler
Alright, so here's what I did, and a few reasons why this method isn't perfect (my assertion about Fluid Death above was false because I forgot to remove the Agility additions of the trinket I was replacing).
All simulations were done using Mew v.20110803, available at:
http://code.google.com/p/mew-wow-druid-model/
I imported foley's uber-geared cat , set up Mew for a fully-buffed raid, 300 seconds with 30% encounter jiggle, 10000 iterations, resulting in a confidence interval of +/-15 DPS. I 'removed' (meaning I subtracted static stat additions and removed the proc effect) the two stock trinkets to create a profile with no trinkets equipped. I then went through each viable trinket one by one, adding their static stats and checking their proc. The results are shown below, this represents "DPS with 1 empty trinket slot and X trinket in the other slot." The base profile (foley's cat with
no
trinkets equipped) sim'd at 26851 dps (!).
So the list below gives a ranking of the trinkets. I don't want to run 256 simulations to check how they all combine, so I make an (incorrect) assumption that the trinket DPS additions will superimpose linearly -- meaning if Trinket 1 adds 500 DPS to the base profile, and Trinket 2 adds 750 DPS to the base profile, then wearing both will add 1250 DPS. This is false because cross-correlation means that wearing Trinket 1 will invalidate the results of Trinket 2 (and doesn't even consider lining up procs or use effects), but it should offer a pretty close approximation, since the DPS changes are relatively small, and the stat additions are probably almost-locally-linear in a sufficiently small neighborhood.
Anyways, here's the list, ranked from worst to best. Remember, the numbers listed are
DPS increase from pairing the listed trinket with an
empty slot
. Note that on Fluid Death, I assumed it was adding 321 Haste, because the base profile is nearly hit capped, so adding Fluid Death would result in a
total
reforging change of -321 Hit, +321 Mastery/Haste/Crit (Haste happened to sim the highest, but they were all within margin of error). By the same reasoning, I did not reforge the Mastery trinkets.
Trinket
Empty Slot
DMC:H
Tia's Grace
Essence of the Cyclone (N)
Unheeded Warning
Prestor's Talisman (N)
Fluid Death
Essence of the Cyclone (H)
Unsolvable Riddle
Ricket's Magnetic Fireball
Prestor's Talisman (H)
The Hungerer (N)
Matrix Restabilizer (N)
Ancient Petrified Seed (378)
The Hungerer (H)
Matrix Restabilizer (H)
Added DPS
0
1404
1545
1623
1673
1694
1765
1855
1876
1878
1908
1940
2054
2075
2184
2343
To reiterate -- this is not intended to be an end-all, be-all trinket ranking list. I'm simply showing the results of my method, which is admittedly flawed. If you can think of a reason (lining up on-use effects, timing, etc) that one trinket should be higher, then don't let this list convince you otherwise. This is simply a set of data, and should be taken as such. Note that with the exception of H. Essence and Unsolvable Riddle, they more or less follow item level.
Edits:
My table looks horrible, I suck with these tags. Working on it.
Post by
404185
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
So when is all this taking place?
Its still showing a damage proc for me.
Same for me, and watching the character screen, it still looks like a weapon damage increase -- tested in caster form, AP unchanged, Weapon Damage + 680 (ie. not just a tooltip error). Mew actually had it updated before the blue post due to observed behavior on EU servers (I think), so I'm not sure what's going on. The wording of the blue post is odd:
Hotfixes are updates we make on our end without requiring you to download a new patch. Some of the hotfixes below will go live the moment they are implemented, while others may require your realm to be restarted to go into effect.
Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update
.
Maybe that just means the 'known issues' that aren't listed. Poking around Google seems to indicate it's only live on EU servers currently, and will be hitting US on Tuesday (
maintenance announcement
). Not sure if anyone knows what they're talking about though, can't find anything official.
Post by
curlymon
Client side patch updates are when tooltips and such need to be updated as the display of those and the data they provide is stored and loaded client side. This means for the information to display correctly, mostly just tooltips, they need to update the client files on YOUR computer.
Post by
833216
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
See my previous response.
Post by
306454
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
Seems the small client patch yesterday didn't do anything to UW. I tested it again yesterday as still actually adding 680 weapon damage (irrespective of item text or tooltip, which I assume will continue to say 680 weapon damage even after the actual buff is changing AP as curly indicates).
well if it is changed to 1900 attack powert wouldnt that be better for mutilate rogues ( i know its druids form but im needing a new trink)?
I don't know Rogue specifics very well, but I do know that static weapon damage additions are more beneficial to faster weapons (which is why Cat druids love it so much, with our 1.0 weapon speed). I would assume the same is true for Mutilate Rogues holding two 1.4-1.7 speed daggers. But maybe all that Assassin spec nature damage scales really well with AP and really poorly with WDPS -- I honestly don't know (I think Mutilate scales with weapon damage, but Instant Poisons and Envenom scale with AP).
Post by
Cant
Seems the small client patch yesterday didn't do anything to UW. I tested it again yesterday as still actually adding 680 weapon damage (irrespective of item text or tooltip, which I assume will continue to say 680 weapon damage even after the actual buff is changing AP as curly indicates).
I tested it on a dumbie and the proc and trinket seem unchanged, however has anyone checked their stats during the proc to see if it indeed does affect attack power?
I really don't want to change it out for (H) Cyclone.
Post by
Heckler
Seems the small client patch yesterday didn't do anything to UW. I tested it again yesterday as still actually adding 680 weapon damage (irrespective of item text or tooltip, which I assume will continue to say 680 weapon damage even after the actual buff is changing AP as curly indicates).
I tested it on a dumbie and the proc and trinket seem unchanged, however has anyone checked their stats during the proc to see if it indeed does affect attack power?
I really don't want to change it out for (H) Cyclone.
Yes, as I stated above, my testing method was to auto-attack in caster form. The proc caused an increase of 680 in weapon damage on the character screen, and AP was unchanged. I'll test it again today after the servers come back up -- people seem to think they'll be applying the change during maintenance.
Post by
yodadoe
Well, whenever it takes effect, I'm still trying to figure out how UW compares to all the other trinkets. It seems pretty clear that any of the common 372+ trinkets will now be better. But I'm still getting conflicting reports about how it compares to Ricket's. I still don't have any 372 or 378 trinkets to pick from yet, so for me, it's between Fluid Death, Ricket's and UW.
The only reports I've yet found are Heckler's (thank you by the way for your work there) that seems to put UW pretty low on the list and one person on EJ claiming that their testing showed UW to be slightly ahead of Ricket's. I can't ever get the simulators to work well enough for me to trust the outcomes... if anyone finds anything new on the subject, please let us know! I'm probably going to go with Ricket's on easier fights so I have an extra CD to use and maybe stick UW in there for more intense fights where I don't have to worry about remembering to click an extra button. :)
Post by
Astygia
Technically the change isn't really a nerf, it's just a change, and possibly a buff. Blizz may have intended to bring the trinket's usefulness down to be in line with other 359s (which is fair), but really all this does is swap out which attacks are being buffed, at least for kitties.
Namely, before the change, its effect buffed Ravage, Shred, and Mangle, as well as autoattacks, which if the stars aligned for you this would lead to a very fast kill in PvP, and a lot of folks were complaining about it.
Now, with the change giving it an AP conversion instead of flat weapon damage, on proc we're still going to see a small buff to Shred, Ravage, Mangle, and autoattacks, but also a substantial increase in Rake, Rip, and FB.
So with all that in mind, the trinket is still incredibly good IF you can manage to line up bleeds and a 5cp FB with the proc, can possibly lead to even faster FB instagibs (I'm hitting 30k+ FBs on targets over 3k res as it stands, curious to see how it plays out now). However, the RNG of it all will most likely have many kitties finally looking at higher iLvl trinkets for PvE, and on-use trinkets for PvP (PvP being a very large factor in this change).
Regarding Rogues, it was and still is a great trinket for them too. Subtlety PvP would have the most use out of it during SD burst, while Mutilate tends to favor Mastery as poisons are an overwhelming portion of the spec's output.
Post by
Cant
Thank you for clearing that up Heckler
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
curlymon
It would need 3.3k AP to break even >.>
Post by
Heckler
Update:
Unheeded Warning nerf tested and confirmed live on US servers (same caster form test as above) -- now adding AP instead of weapon damage.
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