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Aspect of Magic retcon.
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Post by
Rankkor
Ok first of all, this is a spoiler-free post, the only semi-spoiler would be the identity of the new aspect of magic, wich we all knew even before cata launched as the blue posters said it. Its Kalecgos. In retrospective, they should had said nothing. Since up to this point any reference to kalec in-game was as a simple member of the blue flight, he hasn't been referenced at all as the new aspect.
Thus they could had kept his identity a secret and that would had built at least a little more suspence at the aspect election but alas, that is not the reason of this post.
The truth is: I'm a little confused now because now I dont know which version is the real one and wich one the fake one. There's 2 versions of the blue dragonflight electing their new aspect during the Embrace (Read: The 2 moons of azeroth alinging with each other)
Novel Version: Thrall is present, Kalecgos is not attacked until AFTER he's been apointed Aspect, Deathwing doesn't show up, and other diferences.
In-game Version (as seen from the quest for the new Legendary Staff): Now i haven't done that quest yet, but I have read some details about it, and from what I've read: A) Thrall isnt there B) a female blue dragon named Tarecgosa plays a rather large role (she isn't mentioned at all in the book) C) kalecgos comes under attack by deathwing himself, with tarecgosa saving his life by sacrificing hers, D) the player's soul fuses with tarecgosa's soul and so the player takes a seat in the Azure Council of blue dragons to elect the new aspect.
So there it is, now I'm confused, what version is suposed to be the canon one? are the events of the staff questline to be ignored altogether?
Post by
Adamsm
The book is canon of course; the quest in game is just something out there, since the book takes place before patch 4.2.
Post by
Behelich
I don't think that Dragonwrath and Shadowmourne are part of the actual canon, considering how much power they are supposed to hold. Either that, or their kind should be wielded by major figures and not faceless raiders.
I mean, look at them. A staff with an ancient dragon's essence? An ax through which the LK spoke to you and that you had to hold up against fracking Syndragosa breathing into your face?
Really?
Post by
Adamsm
Either that, or their kind should be wielded by major figures and not faceless raiders.It's definitely the first, since just look at the base of Atiesh which was shown to still be stuck inside of C'thun, and only became whole in the hand of Med'an. I'm sure in the future we are going to end up seeing Shadowmourne in the hands of Darion or the like, same with the other weapons.
Post by
Patty
But what I don't understand, really, is that the version in-game (and therefore more familiar to more of the players) is entirely non-canon. It's not so much the weapons, more the storylines through the quest chains.
Post by
Adamsm
But what I don't understand, really, is that the version in-game (and therefore more familiar to more of the players) is entirely non-canon. It's not so much the weapons, more the storylines through the quest chains.
That goes back to the Atiesh quest line as well, which was ignored for the new lore about it. And it happens a lot, with the book lore trumping the in game scenes.
Post by
Patty
That goes back to the Atiesh quest line as well, which was ignored for the new lore about it. And it happens a lot, with the book lore trumping the in game scenes.
Indeed. It's rather illogical. :|
Post by
Adamsm
That goes back to the Atiesh quest line as well, which was ignored for the new lore about it. And it happens a lot, with the book lore trumping the in game scenes.
Indeed. It's rather illogical. :|
Yes and no; it does make more sense for the actual book information to be the canon as opposed to the in game quests at time; especially in the case of the new staff quest line, since, as Rank said "the player's soul fuses with tarecgosa's soul and so the player takes a seat in the Azure Council of blue dragons to elect the new aspect"; so there are hundreds of Tarec's soul and hundreds of new mortal members helping to choose the new Aspect? =P
I prefer the Embrace thing in the book, as it makes a lot more sense then just voting in a new Aspect...that said, I'm still sad there was no reference at all to Tyri in the book or the new quest line, and it looks like any of unrequited love between Kalec and Tyri is going by the side lines for Kiry instead, if the things implied in the book are right /sigh.
Post by
Patty
My point was more referring to the fact that more people will be familiar with the game's version of events, even though it's regarded as
completely
non-canon. They could have used another story for Dragonwrath, but they decided to waste their initiative, if there's any left at Blizz. :P Rather than complementing the official lore, the quest chain and novel both contradict each other. :@
Post by
Adamsm
Which is business as usual for Blizzard heh; the merger of the Lich King, the arrival of the Old Gods, the power of the Legion, the threat of the Twilight Hammer Cult...etc etc etc.
Post by
Rankkor
as Rank said "the player's soul fuses with tarecgosa's soul and so the player takes a seat in the Azure Council of blue dragons to elect the new aspect"; so there are hundreds of Tarec's soul and hundreds of new mortal members helping to choose the new Aspect? =P
I prefer the Embrace thing in the book, as it makes a lot more sense then just voting in a new Aspect...
whoa whoa whoa whoa.
When it comes to quests being canon in lore, we asume that it happened to just 1 person.
When quel'delar was discovered, even though in-game thousands have it, lore-wise only 1 have it. And since the blood-elf version of that quest has the happiest ending, I choose to believe that as canon.
But in the Dragon's Wrath quest, you dont just vote for a new aspect, the embrace DOES play its role. and you get to see it as well.
Edit: Clarification: As I said I haven't done the quests, and all the datamined info on it only show the quest start text, but not the quest completion text,nor do they show the dialog of the cutscenes. From what I've read, what I can gather is that the Azure Council Votes THE CANDIDATES for the next aspect. And the Embrace is when the new candidate is elected via lunar lazer beam.
Having said that.... wow that staff really makes for the ULTIMATE roleplaying tool.
Specially if u're a blood elf or human mage. You can RP being a blue dragon with it :P Since not only u can transform into a GORGEOUS blue dragon (not drake, DRAGON) you also get to witness the embrace, and be a member (not honorary member, a MEMBER) of the Azure Council. Its almost unfair to non-casters taht this epicness is denied to them =(
Post by
Adamsm
Edit: Clarification: As I said I haven't done the quests, and all the datamined info on it only show the quest start text, but not the quest completion text,nor do they show the dialog of the cutscenes. From what I've read, what I can gather is that the Azure Council Votes THE CANDIDATES for the next aspect. And the Embrace is when the new candidate is elected via lunar lazer beam.
That's the thing though; Kalec didn't think he was in the running in the book, but he was chosen because apparently, out of all the Blue Flight gathered for the Eclipse, only he had the 'pure' thoughts about the Flight and just wanted to bring about them out of the Darkness: That's why Arygos failed, but I think if Kirygosa or Tyrigosa had been there, they may have been the ones actually chosen instead of Kalec.
But again Rank: The book takes place before patch 4.2(you can tell because the Firelands aren't raging, and Thrall and Aggra are not mated for life) so it is the canon over a quest that was introduced after. It could be that Blizzard made an 'oops' moment and didn't think to rectify it before the book came out. The books will almost always be canon over the in game information, we have to understand that.
Post by
Rankkor
that sucks, as much as I'm a fan of Thrall, the in-game version looks A LOT better :P and I haven't even SEEN the ingame version, I'm just speculating out of incomplete texts and 1 blurry screenshot.
Post by
Gnub
I'll see what I can add in, when I'll eventually get to that part of the quest, which - luckily enough - should be soon. It does seem rather inconsistent though.
The event shown at the end of
Through a Glass, Darkly
, seems to state that the death of Kalecgos will ensure that Arygos gets the role, after his little chat with Deathwing in the Eye of Eternity.
(Also, this was a very nice cutscene. Arygos does indeed look like his father, but is utterly
dwarfed
by Deathwing.)
On top of that, and from what I remember from the written guide and looking around in the quests, Kalecgos is indeed attacked before the ceremony (see
part 2 of the Dragonwrath guide
- which I really need to update soon). Then again - there could very well be
two
attacks involved. Before and during, as I don't know how the cutscene with the actual ascention will look like.
Post by
Adamsm
And in the book, it's said the inside of the Eye is completely wrecked, just like it was after the defeat of Maly.
Post by
Gnub
And in the book, it's said the inside of the Eye is completely wrecked, just like it was after the defeat of Maly.
Odd. It certainly looked like it always did when I saw it - perhaps that's just game mechanics (as it's an actual phased Eye of Eternity instance you're looking at).
"When" did they go to the Eye of Eternity in the book, again?
Post by
Adamsm
And in the book, it's said the inside of the Eye is completely wrecked, just like it was after the defeat of Maly.
Odd. It certainly looked like it always did when I saw it - perhaps that's just game mechanics (as it's an actual phased Eye of Eternity instance you're looking at).
"When" did they go to the Eye of Eternity in the book, again?
After Arygos failed to become the new Aspect; he's in there, and the mysterious assassin(leaving it as that just because some people probably haven't seen it yet and I don't want to use a spoiler tag), is hopping around from ruined floating block to ruined floating block to get onto the back of the son of Malygos.....then, positions himself behind the dragon's head and well.......
Kills Arygos to invoke the blood line power of the Blue Flight, which activates the Surge Needle, which kick starts Chromatus.
Post by
Gnub
But erhm, wasn't that the "other time-line", or was it past the point where it got back to the "current" (assuming I understood the plot of the book somehow correctly)?
Post by
Adamsm
But erhm, wasn't that the "other time-line", or was it past the point where it got back to the "current" (assuming I understood the plot of the book somehow correctly)?
No.......it's right after Kalec becomes the new Aspect of Magic, and Arygos runs away to try to figure out a way to salvage his plan. Again, as said above Gnub, the book is taking place before patch 4.2, which renders the entire quest line portion where the 'mortal' helps choose a new Aspect moot. The Eye sounds like it has been trashed since the fall of Malygos, and no one restored it.
Edit: And while the mysterious assassin comes from that failed time line, he was pulled out of it by the Infinites who are apparently working with the Twilights. Thrall was saved from it by Nozdormu....or Thrall saved Nozdormu from it, as it's suppose to be Thrall living in the moment that pulls the Timeless One out of his spiral of endless Time travel.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'll tell you the issue I've been finding with world of warcraft and its lore lately, infact its something thats always been the case, but something people don't tend to take wind of.
The very mechanics of world of warcraft stiffles the lore. Yes, it lets us be involved in these dramatic events sometimes, like dragonwrath and all that, but these things in the game is something created not for consistancy for the lore, but for something for the player to do.
See, in something like warcraft 3, you could have easily done the event with dragonwrath and kelec becoming the aspect, because the game in warcraft 3 allowed us to play as the lore characters the lore was directing at. Thats also why we the player felt more of a bond with the characters in warcraft 3, because it felt more personal to witness those events from there eyes.
Now though, world of warcraft seems to push us away more from the lore figures, in the sense of us not seeing the story from there eyes and seeing there thoughts on those events, its all about our own randomly generated character and what he or she gets out of this.
This is why I no longer consider many of the quests in warcraft to be canon, and its harder to take them seriously, unlike the books and other media for the lore. We're just not as close to these characters in wow as we once were, and all the quests comes down to is getting a reward at the end of it. This is why then, the lore is retconned with the quests, to provide the player with a sense of satisfaction, even when its not meant to be them there.
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