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Spell haste & hit cap
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Post by
Temes
I was wondering how spell haste works. Since the haste makes your spells go faster, how does the % actually affect the cast time? For example, if I have spellhaste worth 20%, is the cast time decreased by 20% to 80%, or is the casting speed increased from 100% to 120%, making the cast time 1/1,2 = 0,83333... = 83,3%. Ofc this really doens't matter with very little amount of haste, but with the mystical skyfire diamond it really makes a difference (3,3% of cast time).
And the hit cap. I have heard/know that the spell hit cap is 202, but I would like to know if the last point is a "full" point or that having a extra spellhit would also make a itsy-bitsy difference (meaning, if the cap isnt exactly 202, but 202,25 or 201,75 or something.) If it isn't hand-set by blizzard to be the 202, it probably (202 isnt really round number) something close to 202. Also I've heard that some "binary" spells can make use of the extra spellhit, so that having extra isn't totally wasted. (just almost useless)
Post by
Nefarion
Haste decreases cast time. A 20% increase in cast speed means a 1 second cast becomes a .8 second cast.
And it's actually 201.84 spell hit rating you need. Just get 202 and leave it at 202.
Post by
Temes
Haste decreases cast time. A 20% increase in cast speed means a 1 second cast becomes a .8 second cast.
And it's actually 201.84 spell hit rating you need. Just get 202 and leave it at 202.
So, assuming there wouldn't be any spellhaste cap and there was enough of +spellhaste gear out there, it would be possible to get all spells instant-cast? That would be cool.
And thanks for telling the actual hit cap.
Post by
Nefarion
Not ever, ever going to happen. It's already been figured that reducing the GCD from 1.5 to 1 second would require much more spell haste than is even available.
And of course, I'm willing to bet it's not possible.
Post by
chronoprodigy14
So, I've generally ignored spell haste. Is spell haste ever worth it? Given natural lag and even human error, I can't imagine spell haste to be a stat to really shoot for.
Post by
Trevelyen
I cannot think of any reason why spell haste would be good, except for maybe pvp. With that said you would have to neglect other stats to get amounts large enough to notice.
--Trevelyen
Edit
Just double checked for those wondering, its 518 spell haste rating, for a 33% reduction.
And just doing a quick search slot by slot with this
filter
i was able to reach 485, which leaves 33 to gems, so it is attain able.
So, anyone who suceeds
/golfclap
Edit2
Staying away from set items and items that had more healing than spell damage.
Post by
Syrlock
Spell haste is FAR from worthless in PvE. Spell haste is actually greater than crit for some classes, point for point. Assuming someone got enough for a 20% reduction. For a warlock, namely fire spec after the reduction in incinerate cast time, you can reduce the cast from 2.25 sec to 1.8 sec.
Now, you have to remember most boss fights are LONG, 5-10 min usually. For a 5 min fight that is a change from 133 casts to 166 casts. At 2000-3000 damage per incinerate, that is close to 60,000-70,000 damage difference over the course of the fight.
For straight casting, every 1% increase in haste is a direct 1% increase in DPS. If you get 100% extra damage from crits then 1% crit is also a 1% damage upgrade, BUT it takes more crit rating for one percent crit than it does for one percent haste.
Post by
Nefarion
I cannot think of any reason why spell haste would be good, except for maybe pvp.
I would never, ever itemize spell haste for a PvP warlock.
Post by
Temes
Spell haste is FAR from worthless in PvE. Spell haste is actually greater than crit for some classes, point for point. Assuming someone got enough for a 20% reduction. For a warlock, namely fire spec after the reduction in incinerate cast time, you can reduce the cast from 2.25 sec to 1.8 sec.
Now, you have to remember most boss fights are LONG, 5-10 min usually. For a 5 min fight that is a change from 133 casts to 166 casts. At 2000-3000 damage per incinerate, that is close to 60,000-70,000 damage difference over the course of the fight.
For straight casting, every 1% increase in haste is a direct 1% increase in DPS. If you get 100% extra damage from crits then 1% crit is also a 1% damage upgrade, BUT it takes more crit rating for one percent crit than it does for one percent haste.
I believe this isn't quite true. Since it does not increase cast speed by X %, but decreases cast time by X %, (this is what previous posts have said) it is actually more than just 1%, depending on the amount of spellhaste you have had before this 1% add to spellhaste. For example: If you have been collecting spell haste, and when ur mystical skyfire diamond procs, ur cast time is about 50% of the original. In this case, ur DPS would have increased over 2%, if you would have attained an extra % of spellhaste.
Post by
Temes
Not ever, ever going to happen. It's already been figured that reducing the GCD from 1.5 to 1 second would require much more spell haste than is even available.
And of course, I'm willing to bet it's not possible.
It was just an theoretical question. Youknow, if it decreases cast time, IT IS possible to have all spells instantcast (assuming you somehow happen to get ur hands on thousands of spell haste, AND there isnt any haste cap). But if it increases cast time, even if you have ur cast time increased by 1000%, it still isnt instant cast (a pyroblast would be somewhere near 0,5secs) and therefore its impossible to obtain a amount of spell haste to have all spells instant casts. The point in here is: The more spellhaste you have, the better the spellhaste gets (the increase in DPS is exponential).
Post by
Celdhyrean
It is not possible, the new hard limit is 1s.
Edit : 1s GCD, the casttime can be brought lower i suppose.
Post by
Delily
It was just an theoretical question. Youknow, if it decreases cast time, IT IS possible to have all spells instantcast (assuming you somehow happen to get ur hands on thousands of spell haste, AND there isnt any haste cap). But if it increases cast time, even if you have ur cast time increased by 1000%, it still isnt instant cast (a pyroblast would be somewhere near 0,5secs) and therefore its impossible to obtain a amount of spell haste to have all spells instant casts. The point in here is: The more spellhaste you have, the better the spellhaste gets (the increase in DPS is exponential).
Having all instant cast spells would be nice for PvP and mobility, but in PvE, your performance is throttled by the GCD. I don't remember, but I think haste also decreases the GCD to 1 second. However, so long as there is a GCD, having instant cast spells versus spells whose cast time is the same as the GCD bring no benefit.
Post by
Nefarion
It was just an theoretical question. Youknow, if it decreases cast time, IT IS possible to have all spells instantcast (assuming you somehow happen to get ur hands on thousands of spell haste, AND there isnt any haste cap). But if it increases cast time, even if you have ur cast time increased by 1000%, it still isnt instant cast (a pyroblast would be somewhere near 0,5secs) and therefore its impossible to obtain a amount of spell haste to have all spells instant casts. The point in here is: The more spellhaste you have, the better the spellhaste gets (the increase in DPS is exponential).
Having all instant cast spells would be nice for PvP and mobility, but in PvE, your performance is throttled by the GCD. I don't remember, but I think haste also decreases the GCD to 1 second. However, so long as there is a GCD, having instant cast spells versus spells whose cast time is the same as the GCD bring no benefit.
And the fact that even if it were possible, you wouldn't have balance and you'd be gimped for stamina and resilience, and wouldn't have enough intellect to cast many spells at all. So, it would be far from optimal.
And given nobody's ever gotten spell hate high enough (probably), we still don't know if there's a cap on speed.
Post by
Trevelyen
Well they only said there was a minimum for GCD, and im sure any pally with some spell haste can tell you how fast they can cast Hammer of Wrath. But yeah, it is irrelevent because it doesnt matter how often you can chuck pebbles at people. Since they will be throwing boulders.
--Trevelyen
Post by
Nefarion
it doesnt matter how often you can chuck pebbles at people. Since they will be throwing boulders.
Very well put.
Post by
stohrzy
For raiding warlocks spell haste is more of a secondary stat that many don't even consider until they are running Black Temple and have the gear to sustain the damage needed to be effective. The general rule of thumb for a raiding warlock is #1 get spell hit capped, #2 increase your bonus damage (at the late hyjal and early bt lvl most locks choose to be shadow warlocks because the gear scales much better with shadow damage than fire so now may be the time to consider that soulfrost enchant), #3 once you have around 1300-1400 bonus damage and crit around 30% or better with the talents granting you an extra 8% chance to crit on top of your gear; then raiders start to stack the spell haste usually in the form of
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35760
.
http://wowhaste.co.nr/spelldmg.php
is a spell haste calculator that can be used to find the actual cast time of your spells. Hope this helps, as for pvp I am not an expert as I am a raider, but from what I know and see the top pvp warlocks stacking spell crit over spell haste consider
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32218
as a gem possibility.
Post by
Nefarion
Necro bumping kills kittens, asshole.
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