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Sub or Assasination PVP help
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Post by
326071
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Post by
345830
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345830
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Post by
Caperon
Atm im testing this
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcbdZbZfGccdhckho
out.
So, is the 10% more crit on backstab worth the 5% less damage by everything?
1/2
Sanguinary Vein
is stupid, while you put the other talent in
Puncturing Wounds
.
I hope you see this now.
You can choose if you want to use premiditation for recup while still in stealth. And then remove 1 talent from Sanguinary Vein.
Nononono, Sanguinary Vein has to be maxed, why would you gimp your dps?
You should ideally find an other way to get Premeditation.
I usually open with Ambush. Hemo > until 5 CPs > recup > Shadowdance > cheap shot > ambush ambush ambush > backstabb or hemo :) Dead.
Its almost always better to start of with garrote.
Its a silence, does bleed damage (immediately increasing your dmg output with Sanguinary Vein) and goes through armor.
Sub is about your own experience of the game and the understanding of the classes your are fighting.
As is every specc :)
It comes down to this:
Mutilate does better damage (mostly because of its raw poison damage and mastery), while sub has better mobility.
People are not mostly choosing their specc, regarding their comp.
Sub fits well into rmp and rld, while mutilate is doing best in rps and rls.
Read these threads and then come back here for more questions:
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=177072&p=2442409
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=177182&p=2443793
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=177144&p=2444093
Post by
shadowraze
I suggest trying both specs and playing the one that you are more comfortable with.
Post by
MrSlick
I am going to try this spec out.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhdZbZfGfcdkcoho:maz
Atm im testing this
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcbdZbZfGccdhckho
out.
So, is the 10% more crit on backstab worth the 5% less damage by everything?
1/2
Sanguinary Vein
is stupid, while you put the other talent in
Puncturing Wounds
.
I went against picking up sanguinary vein mostly just from reading this article here >>>
http://lastrogue.com/subtlety-pvp-specs/
If you’re playing with the Glyph of Hemorrhage, the bleed effect caused by the glyph is enough to give you the 10% extra damage from this talent. It’s not a bad boost to the mediocre pressure you can put out through raw damage, even if you’re relying on rupture for the bleed effects (don’t get me started on how pathetic rupture looks at the moment! A mere 500 damage dot against a target with a 120k health pool is nothing more than a joke). -lastrogue.com
I wanted points put into waylay because crippling poison does not seem to proc fast enough in pvp situations. Instead of shiving and using a global cooldown, it just makes more sense to me to make the snare come from a harder hitting move. I did not want to lose points from the secondary tree, so I had to make the tough decision to free up some points, and removing them from sanguinary vein seems like a viable option.
Post by
105944
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Post by
MrSlick
anyone that claims nightstalker and elusiveness are essential talents while hat, waylay, and sanguinary vein are "optional" has no idea what they are talking about
He seems like a decent source, at least he was in Wrath.
Elusiveness is valuable.
Question: Is 2/2 nightstalker not valuable?
Caperon's spec
posted a few days ago leaves it at 1/2. He is a smart rogue. What am I not seeing?
It comes down to waylay vs. sanguinary vein.
My worry is Crippling poison not procing enough. I can always Shiv, but it does not do as much damage as backstab+waylay.
Is glyphing for crippling poison a viable alternative?
Post by
CrimzonEyed
Remember that if you are to far away from you party members in a BG you will not have much use for 3/3 in HaT.
Myself I'm going with
this
spec.
I'm going to try take the points from Initiative and put them in HaT and see if it is more usefull or not.
If I'm dueling verry heavy armored tanks that i have hard to beat with sub i usualy try them on with
this
spec.
Post by
Caperon
Question: Is 2/2 nightstalker not valuable?
Caperon's spec
posted a few days ago leaves it at 1/2. He is a smart rogue. What am I not seeing?
A decision easily made when looking at sub's bloated tree.
Since at the start of the arena ill be poping Sprint to achieve a faster Sap.
I wont gravely notice the loss of a point in
Nightstalker
, mostly because of
Quickening
and
Glyph of Sprint
.
The point in it is still pretty good, since you get a small speed increase and the cd reduction on stealth.
It comes down to waylay vs. sanguinary vein.
And sadly enough
Sanguinary Vein
wins.
Sub's damage output is not that optimal atm and it would be stupid too only nerf it more.
The loss of
Waylay
can be easily made up by sub's higher mobility.
Im still hoping for a small fix in the tree in which we can free up 3 talent points.
My worry is Crippling poison not procing enough. I can always Shiv, but it does not do as much damage as backstab+waylay.
Yes/no.
Crippling is still pretty good and there is no such thing as
Waylay
being a 100% snare, since it relies heavily on enemy movement.
i simply went for crippling because i rely on my teammate(s) aswell for a snare/stun.
Is glyphing for crippling poison a viable alternative?
Not really, the other glyphs are a lot better.
Remember that if you are to far away from you party members in a BG you will not have much use for 3/3 in HaT.
You can procc
hat
aswell, so no.
Hat
is always better than
Initiative
.
Myself I'm going with
this
spec.
I'm going to try take the points from Initiative and put them in HaT and see if it is more usefull or not.
Read above.
If I'm dueling verry heavy armored tanks that i have hard to beat with sub i usualy try them on with
this
spec.
Glyph of Garrote
?
And why the hell would you take
Improved Expose Armor
?
All your poisons are armor ignore, together with the bleeds.
And if i went mutilate for pvp, i would be toddling with the idea of taking
Cut to the Chase
, because the other options might be a bit luster in arenas.
Post by
MrSlick
Glyph of Preparation and Garrote are obvious choices.
What about Blind and Sprint?
Sprinting off and trying to Sap a target is good, but some classes are able to get out of it. The 30% speed increase is nice to have in many situations, and being able to pop it every minute is fantastic.
Then there is Glyph of Blind. With Rogues being very DoT heavy, the ability to CC any target regardless of DoT status meshes well with Sub's controlling play style.
I am at a loss for which to pick.
Post by
StealthyKyrie
Remember that if you are to far away from you party members in a BG you will not have much use for 3/3 in HaT.
Myself I'm going with
this
spec.
I'm going to try take the points from Initiative and put them in HaT and see if it is more usefull or not.
If I'm dueling verry heavy armored tanks that i have hard to beat with sub i usualy try them on with
this
spec.
I understand that i am puttin my words in a couple days late, and most may either say im wrong and stupid (had a nice "chat" with other rogues on the usefulness on certain talents with certain specs in trade), or maybe they would get what im saying.
1. HaT works with an entire raid group, not just party members. so there is always a use.
2. In Wsg, everyone can be out in mid, and ill be in horde base looking for their FC and ill get combos out of no where, so distance becoming a factor? youd have to be far away from EVERYONE in your bg raid. Even then im not sure about distance in which it matters on it proccing or not. so unless anyone has any way of telling me this...
3. Increase damage to bleeding targets? Hellishly useful for a tree that was at once lowest on the damage skill. Granted, it still dont compare to muti, but it at least isnt going to do NOTHING to you.
Post by
Aldehyde1
Caperon, with your specc, are you using daggers? If not, what's the reason for the backstab glyph? Doesn't that gimp your damage somehow (if you're using daggers)?
Is daggers the way to go for sub as well as muti?
Post by
Caperon
Yes, daggers preform better for ambush & hemo and backstab does a lot more damage than hemo.
Post by
141095
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Post by
MrSlick
Cheat Death is too good to not have in the build. I am not sure I would give that up to get all those other talents.
Post by
141095
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Post by
761683
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Post by
84760
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761683
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