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Why Your Religion?
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Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Yeah, that makes sense. Although I have this whole thing going that there is no 'evil,' it's really all subjective. Your creed makes sense for the human race, but it really gets more grey than that.
There's lots of evil; anything violent, vicious cruel you do to someone is evil, but then again, for stuff like that, that's what karma is for; whatever evil you do, you get back three times worse.
That's your subjective view. Put yourself in the others shoes, what do you think caused them to do that? As long as they can justify it, it's not evil. Or perhaps the act is evil, objectively, but not the person. The only person who I could define as 'evil' (and even then, it's a lot more complex for me) would be someone who accepts their actions are evil, yet continues to do them of their own absolute free will.
Also, I don't believe in karma as a cosmic force, but as a more social one. You feel guilt, and generally your actions will have consequence directly related to the action. For instance, I doubt that being an axe murder will get you hit by a meteorite when you become an astronaut, or whatnot.
Post by
Orranis
Well its like I have hit the level cap (horray religion instead of atheism), decided to do some PvE instead of PvP (tbh its not true but better for the metaphor), and now that I have finally geared up (picking that religion) I just need to find other people to do it with.
now its a long metaphor which defeats the whole purpose of the tr;dr...
Now lets just pretend that the level cap is a lie. It doesn't exist. Enjoy level 1-15, because your on a trial account. There's nothing else. Why do you think there is this level cap?
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Cambo
My religion: None.
I hold to christian beliefs, but I have recently stopped going to church. The reason is that I dont think the people reflect God in the right manner. Too much 'world' creeping in, and it always felt like a hugely intense personal improvement scheme - "don't do that, do this". It was really conflicting with my understanding of grace. So much so, that I felt out of place because I drank beer, played videogames and listened to death metal, but I still hold
very high
personal moral standards. I made every effort to fit in, and do all the right stuff, and do what I can to make God happy, but it felt more like human sensationalism more than instruction from God.
I know I should be more forgiving, and that christians arent perfect, but I am exhausted and frustrated at the moment.
Over the last few years I have had some very scary and humbling supernatural experiences with some kind of divine being (something inside me always registered it as the same being every time) so it makes it difficult to just pretend that there is no God/god/. The way that this 'divine being' presented itself to me really caused me to draw a conclusion that it is being grossly misrepresented by its followers.
Bring on the "lol"s and "wtf"s!
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah, that makes sense. Although I have this whole thing going that there is no 'evil,' it's really all subjective. Your creed makes sense for the human race, but it really gets more grey than that.
There's lots of evil; anything violent, vicious cruel you do to someone is evil, but then again, for stuff like that, that's what karma is for; whatever evil you do, you get back three times worse.
That's your subjective view. Put yourself in the others shoes, what do you think caused them to do that? As long as they can justify it, it's not evil. Or perhaps the act is evil, objectively, but not the person. The only person who I could define as 'evil' (and even then, it's a lot more complex for me) would be someone who accepts their actions are evil, yet continues to do them of their own absolute free will.
Also, I don't believe in karma as a cosmic force, but as a more social one. You feel guilt, and generally your actions will have consequence directly related to the action. For instance, I doubt that being an axe murder will get you hit by a meteorite when you become an astronaut, or whatnot.
Heh, you realize that people justify genocide... often heh. As for karma, they would get hit by the meteorite long before they became an astronaut for murdering someone. And it's possible it exists, you see it often after all; criminals do 'evil' things, then get hit by a string of bad luck... largest being arrested and put in jail.
Post by
Orranis
I love moral relativist arguments- They argue that everything is subjective and there is no real moral truth.
but if there is no truth then is that statement true?
Simply put, just because everything else in life can be studied and measured, what makes you think that you cannot come to a consensus on things like morality and ethics? Perhaps we will not get a perfect answer, but we can certainly toss out things that are wrong.
Like say, moral relativism.
I agree. I am technically an 'anarchist,' simply because I disagree with the idea of a 'one size fits all' in law for what is morally right and wrong. However, seeing as we're all susceptible to corruption, law is simply the best compromise.
Moral Truth ≠ Truth.
Also, you misunderstand me. I don't believe in morals, period. They are something humans invented for evolutionary purposes. Now that we have a higher form of intelligence, we must question them.
I believe that only because we have defined evil, we have become evil. To a wolf say, there is simply beneficial and non-beneficial. We have invented an idea of good and evil, and done the latter. That makes us the only evil beings we are currently aware of. Without morality, there can be no immorality. On a whole, what do morals matter? You'll be dead and in the ground, and cease to exist. Should we not enjoy life however we can in the brief spark we have it? Any other creature would try and benefit its own and its kin, with no regard to anything else. While I would like to answer yes, I find that I cannot. Can we even be sure that anyone else exists? That they have a conscious? The idea of morality remains a mystery to me, which is why I undertake philosophy and theology.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Yeah, that makes sense. Although I have this whole thing going that there is no 'evil,' it's really all subjective. Your creed makes sense for the human race, but it really gets more grey than that.
There's lots of evil; anything violent, vicious cruel you do to someone is evil, but then again, for stuff like that, that's what karma is for; whatever evil you do, you get back three times worse.
That's your subjective view. Put yourself in the others shoes, what do you think caused them to do that? As long as they can justify it, it's not evil. Or perhaps the act is evil, objectively, but not the person. The only person who I could define as 'evil' (and even then, it's a lot more complex for me) would be someone who accepts their actions are evil, yet continues to do them of their own absolute free will.
Also, I don't believe in karma as a cosmic force, but as a more social one. You feel guilt, and generally your actions will have consequence directly related to the action. For instance, I doubt that being an axe murder will get you hit by a meteorite when you become an astronaut, or whatnot.
Heh, you realize that people justify genocide... often heh. As for karma, they would get hit by the meteorite long before they became an astronaut for murdering someone. And it's possible it exists, you see it often after all; criminals do 'evil' things, then get hit by a string of bad luck... largest being arrested and put in jail.
*Cough cough* Hitler Card *Cough Cough*
Exactly. Is genocide an evil act (assuming evil even exists), most probably yes. Does that make those who do it evil people? Not necessarily.
And I chuckle at your karma argument. Them getting in jail for killing someone is because we want to put them in jail for killing someone, not because the universe does. I believe in karma, but I think it's a force of logic, not of the supernatural. If I hit you, you'll hit me. The meteor is totally unrelated.
Post by
Orranis
Karma not only means that you are likely to see bad things if you do bad things but also that the more you do bad things, the more bad things you will do.
Ie. if you steal 1 thing and get away with it you are more likely to steal more and more. This has been found to be quite true in Psychology- if you want to see something amazing and scary at the same time watch some vids on Zimbardo's famous study.
I agree with that, but that's not karma, nor is it what we're talking about.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I believe that only because we have defined evil, we have become evil. To a wolf say, there is simply beneficial and non-beneficial. We have invented an idea of good and evil, and done the latter. That makes us the only evil beings we are currently aware of. Without morality, there can be no immorality. On a whole, what do morals matter? You'll be dead and in the ground, and cease to exist. Should we not enjoy life however we can in the brief spark we have it? Any other creature would try and benefit its own and its kin, with no regard to anything else. While I would like to answer yes, I find that I cannot. Can we even be sure that anyone else exists? That they have a conscious? The idea of morality remains a mystery to me, which is why I undertake philosophy and theology.The problem with that is fairly simple; animals have a different perspective then we do; send a human hunter out to 'hunt' and he'll shoot 10 deer, use only the smallest part of them, and leave the rest to rot, while the wolf hunts kills one animal, eats as much of the meat as possible, cracks and breaks the bones for the marrow, and leaves the carcass behind for the scavengers to finish off.
Or how about this; human kills a child for no real reason beyond seeing the need to, a male lion kills all the young males to get rid of potential threats when they are older, as well as to throw all the females in a pride into heat.
Post by
Monday
But my question was, what makes you think that you will become a creator in heaven, as opposed to another pasta string in the great invisible flying spaghetti monster?
What do you want me to say here? I'm not going to argue with you as all you will do is continually say: "How do you
know
?
Simple answer comes from my religion: And now as I said concerning faith — faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
And you will say "How do you
know
? about that.
Simple answer. I believe in it. nothing you say can convince me otherwise.
Post by
TheMediator
I definitely think there is evil in the world i.e. things that hurt other people without gain for the greater good, but at the same time I do NOT believe in free will. Considering those beliefs, I look at evil doers as something akin to a enraged wolf or bear - I don't hate them, but I still believe they should be put down for the greater good.
Post by
135207
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
So I want to hear the thoughts. What makes
your
religion the right one?
What makes my religion the correct one? I think I would be more comfortable changeing your question slightly, since it would bring me under less fire.
What made me arrive at the religion I did today?
First, I had to difinitively say that there is a creater. So, I studied the universe. What I found was an infinite amount of beauty. What I found was a painting. The best of which was usually right next to me. The most powerful element of which was love. This warmth I am wrapped in, by the stars that shine down, the wind that whips through the willow in my front yard, the look my wife gives me right before she kisses me, the laughter of my children... all of it. I cannot understand arriving at 'love' by accident. Some being out there intended it. It is to perfect, being loved, to be accidental. Christmas dinner does not cook itself. The earth, the stars, they could be accidental. But that look in my wife's eyes... there is wisdom and love behind it that didn't just land here by chance.
Second, I had to determine that knowing which creater was present had to be possible. After all, how did I know that knowledge of the creater was even made available by said creater? I looked slightly inward for the answer to this question. Let's say, for illustrative sake, that I had created the universe. Let's say I had made the look that my wife gives me, and I had even created that warm and giddy feeling that I get when I recieve that look. Let's say that I had created these beings that appreciated love so much. It would be my inclination that I would want to recieve love back from them. In fact, the act of being loved would seem the number one important thing on my agenda. In order to be loved, they would need knowledge of me. This is how I arrived at the conclusion that God must have made his presence known.
Third, I had to use reasoning to deduce which God was the true God. I ruled out any religion that started recently (I use recently loosely), such as Scientology, Buddhism, Greek Mythology, etc. There would be no reason that God would not make his presence known until later. So, that left me with Judo-type religions, aka Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I quickly ruled out Judaism based on their own teachings. It seems that the only difference between Judaism and Christianity is that Jews are waiting for the coming messiah. The problem is, their prophets told them they would be able to recognise the messiah, based on a number of things, including the lineage of the person claiming to be the messiah. When Jeruselum fell in 70 AD, the records were destroyed. There is no way for them to fulfill their prophecies after that date. So, that left Christianity, with the possibility of Islam. I read the Qur'an. It was based on Judism, but failed to fulfill the prophecies set forward by Judaism. It was, in a sense, taken from a religion, against the teachings of that religion. That left me with Christianity, which I have studied the most. It was based off of Judaism, like Islam, but fulfilled the requirements set forward by Judaism to have Jesus be the Messiah, while Islam seems to forget the whole issue of the messiah, which was what Judaism was based on.
Fourth, I had to ensure that the choice to believe in Christianity in step 3, didn't conflict with my understanding in step 1 and 2. It did fulfill the understanding that a God exists, and further, that he wanted to be loved. The defining moment was when I read Luke 10:27, which says that you must love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind, and sets that down as the greatest commandment. It makes perfect sense to me.
Lastly, I had to decide on a sect of Christianity. There were many. Catholicism, Mormons, 7th day adventist, Baptists, the list goes on and on and on. What I found was that they all deviated from the teachings of Christ in some form or another, and some more drastically than others. This was a real problem. I decided to just follow the teachings of Christ, and ignore the religous world. It has suited me well.
Post by
Orranis
I definitely think there is evil in the world i.e. things that hurt other people without gain for the greater good, but at the same time I do NOT believe in free will. Considering those beliefs, I look at evil doers as something akin to a enraged wolf or bear - I don't hate them, but I still believe they should be put down for the greater good.
My beliefs on free will are as such. I believe that it is completely possible that literally everything can be predicted in a butterfly effect like situation. Everything is predictable, yet we can't predict everything. Simply, there are far too many variables. It's not that there's only one choice they can make, it's that there's only one choice they would make.
But also, you must think of another thing. What made them that way? How a person acts is based on their past experiences, and a tiny bit on their genetic code. So if everything they do is based on uncontrollable situations that happened in their past, are you sure jail is the answer? Wouldn't mental help and counseling make more sense?
Post by
374287
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Post by
165617
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Post by
374287
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