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Turalyon and Glorenzelg?
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Post by
Maniac21
I posted this on battle but thought I'd ask you guys too.
I've been running Heroic 25 ICC for tmog stuff with one thing I really want is this.
Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand
Now with a name like that, we can assume that this sword has some history. Though we've not heard of it before Icecrown. What's really interesting is the flavor text on the 25 man version.
"Paragon of the light, lead our armies against the coming darkness"
This passage has two things of note. Both lead me to believe that this sword was meant for Turalyon. I've heard him be referred to as the Paragon of Light in the past, plus he was the general of the Alliance's armies after Lothar's death.
I tend to think that it was forged for him during his campaign on Draenor against Ner'zhul's Horde. Perhaps the Dark Portal closed before it could be delivered to him?
Also, in Legion, Ashbringer is referred to as the High Blade, perhaps this was a sort of Proto-Ashbringer? Maybe Magni had a hand in making it, and used what he learned here in making Ashbringer?
But what happened to this after the Dark Portal closed?
Post by
Adamsm
It's just flavour text.
Post by
Maniac21
Maybe so, but I think there's more to it. Will we see any follow up on it? Unlikely, but I also think it's worth looking at. The Flavor text points at Turalyon, and just because its flavor text does not mean it means nothing. There's also the name of the weapon, which points to it being highly placed in the Silver Hand. Finally there's the guy it drops from, someone with a major hate for Paladin, and the Silver Hand in particular, someone who would take a great deal of glee in destroying something associated with the order.
Post by
Adamsm
The flavour text can point at any Paladin who's part of the Silver Hand which had a major resurgence following the Second War and after Turalyon was lost to the Nether in Draenor/Outland.Arthas could have picked it up off the body of any member of the Hand or the Crusade.
Post by
Maniac21
A staff that belonged to antonidas, an ancestral mace of the Bronzebeard clan, a dagger belonging to Illidan stormrage, two weapons associated with Sylvanas Windrunner....and a sword Arthas picked up from a random paladin?
No. I don't think so. Each of the weapons Arthas drops in 25 heroic is connected to him in some way or another. Glorenzelg obviously refers to the Silver Hand as a whole, and there where many paladin in the order, but how many of them carried the title "Paragon of the Light?" How many of them were defined as commander of armies? The flavor text points at Turalyon. Perhaps the weapon simply sat in the HQ of the Silver Hand after Turalyon was lost? Waiting for a new owner worthy of it?
It is called the Highblade, and only two other weapons carry that title, Quel'Serrar, and the Ashbringer (in Legion), therefore it was not a weapon that was passed out to any paladin. Turalyon was one of the first 4 (or is it 5, I've seen both) Paladin and one of the Alliance greatest heroes. That the sword didn't reach him in time before the Dark Portal closed could be the major reason he doesn't have it.
Post by
Adamsm
Or...it was pointing at
Uther
. You know, the Lightbringer and the soul trapped inside of Frostmourne? The second(or first) greatest Paladin out there, one of the most famous, and a mighty hero of the Grand Alliance?
And while Turalyon was one of the first Paladins, he was not the leader of the Silver Hand: That again was Uther and Turalyon was fine with letting the older more experienced man lead them. In fact, Turalyon had many issues with his faith and only drew on the Light sparringly.
Post by
Maniac21
It could be referring to Uther, however I don't think so, in the end, the one it's directed at is described as the commander of armies. It may have been created by the Silver Hand, but Paladin from the order fulfilled many roles. Look at how the King of Lordaeron entrusted his heir to them. Also Uther has been described in the past as having no interest in leading any force other than his Silver Hand brothers, and rejecting any offer to lead the Alliance forces, so he can not be considered a leader of armies.
Also his item from Arthas is the Silver Hand badge from the shadowmourne questline.
I'm not suggesting that Turalyon DID wield the sword (he's always described as wielding a hammer), but that it was meant for him, but never got to him. Perhaps the sword was originally created by the Alliance for him, and the Silver hand took it in after he disappeared?
Post by
Adamsm
But he was never once referred to as being a Paragon of Light. So how could the item refer to him when it uses a title that has never been associated to him in any way shape or form?
What about the second obvious answer if one overlooks Uther: It was forged for Arthas to take up after he finished his formal training and took over as the leader of Lordaeron's military? Since he was originally seen as the second coming of Uther when it came to the hierarchy of Paladins.
Edit: Or answer number three: The player character. After all, we end up as the leader of armies in Draenor, and as of Legion, the player is the new Ashbringer and leader of the Silver Hand, aka the Paragon of Light.
Post by
Maniac21
I have heard Turalyon referred to as the Paragon of Light, and it could have been forged for Arthas, I hadn't thought of Arthas. However, with the Hammer he wielded being a gift from Archbishop Faol, I tend to think that it is the weapon that was intended for him. Nevertheless, I still think the title of Paragon of Light leads to Turalyon.
Post by
Adamsm
Where did you hear of Turalyon being referred to a Paragon of the Light? It was never mentioned in Warcraft 2 or either of the books that covered the Second War and Beyond the Dark Portal. Yes in Legion we find out he was sent through time and fought the Legion as a High Exarch but he's never had that title in any canon material.
Post by
Maniac21
It's possible I'm mis-remembering it, but I do recall hearing him referred to as this, though I don't remember where. It still seems to me that the sword is pointing to him, as Arthas and Uther both already possess powerful and named weapons, and Turalyon is the only one of them defined as a leader of armies.
Frankly, this argument is starting to go in circles.
Post by
Adamsm
Well yeah; cause it's about flavour text on a weapon from three expansions ago that was just there for DPS Warriors, DK and Pally's to use. It doesn't mean anything and to be completely honest it's stretching it to the extreme to even try to link it to Turalyon who was the leader of the Grand Alliance armies but wasn't the leader for the Third War since that was Arthas and Uther until Arthas fell to his corruption, especially as the Ashbringer was forged after the Portal to Draenor was sealed up. And again: Nothing in Lore has ever referred to Turalyon as a Paragon of Light, I even checked his Wowpedia page to be certain of that because again, his time to shine was Warcraft 2 and Beyond the Dark Portal, and the books in regards to both of those events do not refer to him in that manner at all. He is a High Exarch now but that's about it.
Post by
Maniac21
What's wrong with it being old content? I thought that this would be a fun topic to debate, that's all. And why should it not be in some way related to the second war? The Silver Hand were formed then.
Ashbringer being forged after the Dark Portal was closed doesn't mean anything, really. I said that this sword was a sort of Proto-Ashbringer, if i'm right then this sword would have been made before it, nothing says the Ashbringer was.
Post by
Adamsm
The thing is though, there is no evidence that it is tied to Turalyon; following his disappearance, a lot of people led the armies. In fact, the flavour text sounds more like it's referring to the eventual commander of the
Army of the Light
.
But again, the two most obvious answers in regards to this are either Uther or Arthas.
Post by
Maniac21
No they aren't. But this is becoming pointless and it's obvious neither of us is going to convince the other that they are right. So I suggest we end this here and find other ways of wasting our time.
Later, and thanks for posting.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't see any discussion as a waste of time. But, alrighty then, enjoy doing what you do.
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