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Viable blood tank spec?
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Post by
karlusdavius
So after reading the stickies here is my final build with glyphs
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EGVhhIsbMfssZhxZ0gh:God0Mm
however im still at a loss in terms of glyphs that are good for tanking purposes. so here are a few questions.
Are those glyphs good enough? if not, what would you swap out?
Is Improved blood presence worth it for starting heroics most probably undergeared? if not, where would you place those two points?
Is epidemic worth it? Considering i will be running heroics for a while until i can get into a guild pugged 25 man naxx?
Is blood gorge worth it? i would have thought id be at 100% most of the time therefor would it be a tps increase big enough to take?
Im also confused on how the Icebound fortitude glyph is meant to work?
thanks for reading :)
Post by
256475
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
About your spec:
2/3 SoB is sufficient, 3/3 is overkill more or less.
Improved blood presence offers you 4% DD done as healing, if you're pushing 2k dps it yields roughly 80hps, this is very minor for a tank and it's usually not included.
Epidemic is nice, it "smoothens" out your rotation, however it's not required, you can do perfectly fine without.
Blood Gorged is a great tps increase, despite the <100% uptime of the 10% dmg increase, it still offers a passive 10% ArP. I'd suggest you sink some points from SoB and IBP there.
You also may want to consider against Spell deflection, since you mention heroics it's worth noting that it's fairly situational but everyone has their own preference/purpose.
I'd actually reccomend you taking Hysteria, it's great to throw at one of the dps during a boss fight/in combo with heroism/lust.
About the glyphs:
They're perfectly viable, later on for tanking single targets you may want to consider switching to Dark death > DnD (i.e. should you become your guilds MT), and many blood DK's strongly reccomend Glyph of disease, which is a good choice for non-epidemic builds. Then you may want to replace RS/DnD glyph with Glyph of Disease.
The IBF glyph sure is confusing, at it works great for tanks, giving them a higher dmg reduction. However, this was unintended, blue posts have confirmed this to be unintentional and it will be changed to only be efficiant in pvp. Making it worthless for tanking sadly.
Edit: Man tbh Blood tanking builds are difficult, there's literary tons of different versions of them, so your build should depend, again, alot on your own personal preference/purpose.
Post by
Bonurmum
Pretty decent spec, However id suggest moving points out of Spell deflection (Spells are seldom single target casts on the tank in current content) and mark of blood (20 cap charge makes it a little less useful) and bloody vengence is more of a dps talent. from there you could go for blood gorged or deeper unholy depending on what you want really (blood gorged is nice, however in some cases depending on gear or other variables its quite possible you wont be above 75% for a majority of the time). Myself ive found
to be most effective
.
As for rotation, its exactly the same as old diseasless blood dps spec but using disease glyph to refresh diseases.
DS for death runes and spam HS with DC as runic power dump.
To answer your questions The glyphs are good but i find disease works well for blood, epidemic can be ignored completely but ive found myself waiting on runes to have to refresh diseases which i did not like, Improved blood presence can also be ignored completely but is a decent filler.
Post by
karlusdavius
awsome suggestions keep them coming.
The 2/3 SoB is really nice to know so thanks for that.
Knowing that IBP is only 80hps makes me think its not worth it at all.
Spell Deflection probably isn't worth it with my low parry chance.
I lol'ed at my misreading of hysteria.
anyone else think sudden doom is worth it?
Post by
256475
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
Myself ive found
to be most effective
I dont think that Butchery should be commonly included in a blood tanking build, Bloody Vengeance offers far more tps. Same thing about Subversion really, 9% overall increased physical damage beats 9% critt to HS. I'm of course assuming 100% uptime on BV, but with DC it's more or less guaranteed (even more so should you use the RS glyph).
I also dont think that Rav. dead is a better tps talent than Blood gorged, 3% str vs 6% damage (not active all the time) and 6% ArP, I reckon it's pretty clear which one's the better choice.
Again, I find IBP very minor, it's 80 hps if you can maintain 2k dps, it's just too little to be worth 2 points. (Not to mention that it doesn't trigger from all spells).
Post by
Aleanos
=
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jbEMqc0IsbMbskZ0xZ0gGhh0d
]. hope it helps
From what I can gather Blood tanks are quite capable of maintaining aoe threat through vigorous use of BB, a Blood/UB build sacrifises in my opinion too many blood goodies for ~unholy talents and UB.
Also you may want to consider against Unholy command, it's mainly regarded as a PvP talent (we have a normal taunt already).
Post by
karlusdavius
=
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jbEMqc0IsbMbskZ0xZ0gGhh0d
]. hope it helps
is it me or is there no death rune generator here? Im not having trouble with AoE, just want to be a general all round good tank. i know blood is good single target, but i don't want go to that far into unholy just to get an AoE talent. If i can't do it with standard talents while deep blood, then ill respec.
so judging from what people have said, this would be pretty viable
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0Erqh0Isb0fssxhxZ0gh:God0Mm
Post by
Aleanos
About sudden doom:
It's an alright tps increasing talent, but Blood gorged is a better one I reckon, and should you favour Spell deflection/Imp rune tap higher than it's fully skippable.
I know an Endgame Blood MT and he rolls with Spell def. > SD (but his threat is already godly through the great scalability of RS)
So you may want to consider it should you have a hard time with your tps, if not, skip it :)
Post by
Bonurmum
I've done testing on my build and found that Subversion and the likes (critical damage bonus) to be the more viable aspects for increasing threat as a blood tank, with that tree I average 28% HS crit chance and same numbers for death strike, and my studies as a ftrost tank found that major threat talents like KM and FS produced an average 30% crit chance on FS which was a nice chunk of threat. I also took 3% str for the added avoidance it gives (very minimal but there's very little mitigation or avoidance talents in blood and every bit helps). also the constant RP generation allows for maximum DS damage and more DC spamming which lead to more threat. I find blood gorged to be less efficient than all the afore mentioned reasons/talents when executed properly.
Post by
Aleanos
so judging from what people have said, this would be pretty viable
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0Erqh0Isb0fssxhxZ0gh:God0Mm
I like the looks of that, many might argue 1 point RT is very minor to be used as a panic button and the tps loss is too great to make it worthwhile.
You could roll with hysteria instead to increase the groups dps, but since you appear to not have that great gear (you mention starting heroics) you may want to pick it up just in case to compensate for that in the beginning.
and if you're ok with those glyphs I'd say you're ready to roll :)
Post by
256475
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
I've done testing on my build and found that Subversion and the likes (critical damage bonus) to be the more viable aspects for increasing threat as a blood tank, with that tree I average 28% HS crit chance and same numbers for death strike, and my studies as a ftrost tank found that major threat talents like KM and FS produced an average 30% crit chance on FS which was a nice chunk of threat. I also took 3% str for the added avoidance it gives (very minimal but there's very little mitigation or avoidance talents in blood and every bit helps). also the constant RP generation allows for maximum DS damage and more DC spamming which lead to more threat. I find blood gorged to be less efficient than all the afore mentioned reasons/talents when executed properly.
Improved DS gives it an additional 6% to crit, not 9%.
The RP gain from Butchery is very, very minor (giving you one extra DC every 40 seconds) and is in my opinion fully neglectable (I'd rather stick with BG)
I agree that critts are a great way to increase tps but overall, a 9% physical damage increase (
Bloody Vengeance) is a greater tps increase than Subversion
.
The avoidance gained from Rav. dead is indeed minimal at best. Whilst not offering any avoidance, Blood gorged does offer a great amount of tps (remember, if you dip below 75% it's only the damage increase effect that deactivates, the ArP stays active at all times).
Since Blood tps is mainly through physical damage Blood Gorged is not to be underestimated.
Post by
karlusdavius
i like the idea of 10% ArP that is constant. After all more damage is more threat. I also feel that death runes allow a blood spec to spam Blood Boil, which is just brilliant for AoE. Then again, if your going for UB then BB is the last thing on your mind?
where would i put the point from RT tho?
Post by
Aleanos
i have a very good reason y i have unholy command. usually my dark command is on cd when a mob breaks free and goes after a dps so the only other viable option is death grip.
If you experience that mobs break free and start going after the dps so much that you need unholy command, the dps is either attacking the wrong target or you're producing insufficient tps/using the wrong rotation.
Post by
Aleanos
i like the idea of 10% ArP that is constant. After all more damage is more threat. I also feel that death runes allow a blood spec to spam Blood Boil, which is just brilliant for AoE. Then again, if your going for UB then BB is the last thing on your mind?
where would i put the point from RT tho?
Well many Blood tanking builds pick Hysteria (to throw it on a phys dps). Should you decide you dont need RT I'd recomend Hysteria.
Post by
Bonurmum
I didn't say imp DS gives 9% crit, I was stating my findings on average crit on the ability from my tests, but ok o;.
I've also found the RP eaten up by DS really kills rp generation as blood spec (due to glyph of DS) which is why I tried to max out my RP generation. But that said you could take out of ravenous dead and Butchery to go full blood gorged, but id never remove points out of subversion for the crit bonus
Post by
Aleanos
I've also found the RP eaten up by DS really kills rp generation as blood spec (due to glyph of DS) which is why I tried to max out my RP generation. But that said you could take out of ravenous dead and Butchery to go full blood gorged, but id never remove points out of subversion for the crit bonus
With the "more than average" strikes that the other trees I rarely find myself dumping DC's to such a large extent that it threatens my DS glyph, heck I find myself using RS alot more than DC to prevent rotation issues (RS > DC for threat anyways).
Alright, you appear to enjoy that juicy 9% extra critt, nothing wrong there everyone has their own style :)
But it's just not
the most optimal place
to spend your points.
Post by
Bonurmum
Ill argue crit till they nerf our class again x;, my main spec is a frost tank, and through many hours of testing I find majority of single target threat (RS aside) comes from the added damage of crits offered by FS procs on KM (averaging 32% crit for me). Taking that talent I average a 29% ish on HS and 27% ish on DS, in our rotation we spam HS 6 times, with a 29% crit chance and the fact we use it much more often than a frost build uses FS, this adds up to a large amount of threat. If it werent for the fact we spam HS so much I would consider it, but like I've said, through my testing I would not drop this talent.
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