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Why Jaina Proudmoore is Wrong
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Post by
342791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
and, Jaina+Varian v Thrall and Sylvanas is likely going to be Alliance wins; Varian is Garrosh's equal at least, and Garrosh is a greater warrior than Thrall), the Horde would not have had forces there. The Alliance would have broken the gate, the war would be won, good times would occur and so on.
Yes, Garrosh is a better
warrior
than Thrall, because Thrall is a
Shaman.
I believe that Thrall feels responsivle for Grom's Death, and is trying to be like a father figure to Garrosh, although imo Garrosh is a doúche.
Also, I think Horde Leaders vs. Alliance leaders would be a bit tougher than that.
In addition, killing every member of the horde could create distaste from other races, such as Draenei,Dwarves, Gnomes or Night Elves, because although the horde is a threat to them, genocide isn't the way forward. The Draenei would certainly disagree with that.
Had Varian fought Thrall and Sylvanas, Thrall/Sylvanas would have probably won. Jaina might have even helped Thrall kill Varian, and even if Varian did win, he could fragment his Alliance and get more races hostile towards him.
And, how would the Alliance alone cope with the Lich King, Old Gods, Naga, Emerald nightmare, Deathwing, Burning Legion etc. all on their own? Especially if some races withdrew from the Alliance.
Post by
TheChilliGod
Jaina* Varian* Sylvanas*
Couldn't help myself.
It is a good argument when taking into account that it is biased, but I surely doubt that the Alliance would handle the Lich King by itself even if the Horde was wiped off of the face of Azeroth. After all, that's why we worked with Medivh in CoT:BM to bring the horde into Azeroth, because it wouldn't have been able to survive the Third War (or other miscellaneous wars) if otherwise.
Post by
366871
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Post by
195614
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Post by
Lionsprey
Lok'tar Ogar! Death to the Humans and Gnomes! (Night elfs are okey if they stay at home, Dwarfs are awsome and so are space goats)
but since i should add something else then that
so your saying that the killing of the leader of a faction would quench it? i doubt so
if varian is killed he would probebly be replaced with whomever was leading the alliance before that
and i doubt he or his people would be happy
if thrall is killed saurfang or garrosh would most likely replace him as the new warchief
if saurfang he would probebly get %^&*ed and cleave the whole alliance, but jokes aside, he would most likely be #$%^ed at the alliance and i doubt that could lead to something good
if its garosh he would get as he wish and go to full out war with the alliance and that WOULD NOT be good
as for your argument that if the forsaken is lost the horde would lose i doubt that would happen
simply becouse theres a lot of people loyal to the horde left
oh and no way Varian could beat Thrall
Post by
Fingulfin
Jaina constanly tries to bring peace between the Alliance and Horde. The vast majority don't want peace. Only Jania and Thrall as members of the factions seek peace. Everyone else would rather wage war.
As such, she goes against the wishes and interests of her people.
In seeking peace, she causes FAR more devestation
Ok, so you are saying that an all out war between the alliance and the horde would cause less devastation than the Wrathgate? LOL, say that again when the Horde burns down Stormwind AGAIN and hundreds of thousands of lives are needlessly lost.
War is an essential part of politics, however with the current situations a war between the alliance and the horde would be devastating to everyone; not only the Alliance and Horde, but to every living creature on Azeroth.
As for that Varian article... As if Thrall didn't see the EXACT same things when he was a forced gladiator for the Alliance. He saw the worst humanity had to offer, and he came out honorable, respectable, forgiving and kind. What does that say about Varian? I would say that makes him the weaker man.
Post by
325248
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Post by
Arideni
There is only...
Post by
HelmedHorror
waffles, endless amount of waffles
Post by
soswou
Lets look at our favorite part of WoW, the Wrathgate. In the Undercity, Thrall and his forces meet Varain and his forces. Jania ports the Alliance forces away to stop fighting.
BAD
Peace would have occoured after that battle. If the Alliance won, slaying Thrall and Silvanus, and having destroyed the Forsaken, the horde would not be able to effectivly resist the Alliance, be defeated, and peace would occour.
If the Horde won, slaying Varian, the driving force behind Alliance aggression would be gone. Thrall could very easily create peace, or atleast only cause a Cold War.
Since Jania constantly tries to create peace, she dooms many hundereds of people to their doom. The Broken Front, for example. Had she acted differently, and followed her king into battle(and, Jania+Varian v Thrall and Sylvanus is likley going to be Alliance wins; Varain is Garrosh's equal at least, and Garrosh is a greater warrior than Thrall), the Horde would not have had forces their. The Alliance would have broken the gate, the war would be won, good times would occour and so on.
In short: If only Jania had listened to her father, none of this fiasco would have happened.
While it may seem that Garrosh is Thrall's superior I believe that Thrall let him win. As for the argument Varian Vs. Thrall would end in Thrall winning, He can destroy an entire castle by calling upon the spirit of fire and asking for one lightning bolt. He can stop entire armies by causing tree roots to sprout from the ground and grab their legs, see my point? He can destroy entire cities by calling upon the elements...
Post by
soswou
and, Jaina+Varian v Thrall and Sylvanas is likely going to be Alliance wins; Varian is Garrosh's equal at least, and Garrosh is a greater warrior than Thrall), the Horde would not have had forces there. The Alliance would have broken the gate, the war would be won, good times would occur and so on.
Yes, Garrosh is a better
warrior
than Thrall, because Thrall is a
Shaman.
I believe that Thrall feels responsivle for Grom's Death, and is trying to be like a father figure to Garrosh, although imo Garrosh is a doúche.
Also, I think Horde Leaders vs. Alliance leaders would be a bit tougher than that.
In addition, killing every member of the horde could create distaste from other races, such as Draenei,Dwarves, Gnomes or Night Elves, because although the horde is a threat to them, genocide isn't the way forward. The Draenei would certainly disagree with that.
Had Varian fought Thrall and Sylvanas, Thrall/Sylvanas would have probably won. Jaina might have even helped Thrall kill Varian, and even if Varian did win, he could fragment his Alliance and get more races hostile towards him.
And, how would the Alliance alone cope with the Lich King, Old Gods, Naga, Emerald nightmare, Deathwing, Burning Legion etc. all on their own? Especially if some races withdrew from the Alliance.
We share a viewpoint
/cheer!
.
And the poinct about the Draenei and the genocide, it has been shown that orcs and Dranei can be friends even while some are being killed by others of the race, Durotan and Ogrim? Ring a bell?
Post by
126903
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Post by
dslyecix
While it may seem that Garrosh is Thrall's superior I believe that Thrall let him win. As for the argument Varian Vs. Thrall would end in Thrall winning, He can destroy an entire castle by calling upon the spirit of fire and asking for one lightning bolt. He can stop entire armies by causing tree roots to sprout from the ground and grab their legs, see my point? He can destroy entire cities by calling upon the elements... This is a terribly fallacious argument.
You're basically saying "well Varian is just a regular dude, Thrall's been described as this master of nature!". Obviously there's more to Varian than just being a dude with a sword, and Thrall gets killed weekly by 40-80 random dudes (mind you so does Varian).
My point is you can't just call upon some clause that states Thrall can destroy castles and claim him the victor.
Post by
108376
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Post by
159454
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Post by
187668
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Post by
kinark
damn that JANIA!
Post by
Shiverlynn
You mean the events at the wrathgate?
He means the Broken Front.
Post by
Kalken
That was like the Fox News of World of Warcraft. Hilarious.
Though, there are standing points.
It can't be denied that both the Blood Elves and the Forsaken are only in the Horde to protect themselves and further their own agendas.
The Forsaken expect to have the living fear, hate, and distrust them, and thus fear, distrust, and hate the living. Allying with the horde allows them to gather strength to strike at their "enemies" first. That, and a promising supply of BRAIAIAIAIAIAIIAAIIAAINS!
The Blood Elves seek power. Anything that furthers that is in their favor. Since they probably won't see much patching up of relationships with their tree-hugging hippy cousins, the Horde suits them fine.
The Trolls, Orcs, and Tauren are able to pretty much coexist peacefully. Trolls of various tribes have multiple historical transgressions to go off of in Azeroth (though this can go for all the races in Azeroth). I'm pretty sure they don't expect much of anything from the Alliance in ways of peaceful negotiation.
Additionally, the history of the wars between the Orcs and the Alliance means that there is little chance that a non-aggressive Orc will have any better chance waving the flag of peace. They would more likely be struck down with immediate prejudice, and they are aware of this.
These were the excuses during the beginning of TBC and around Vanilla's release.
The Blood Elves had intended to join Kael'Thas in outland after he had found a form of power to replace the Sunwell. After they discovered that that particular source of power was Fel magic they felt betrayed. The Blood Elves even aided the Horde in the first defeat of Kael. Afterwards Kael's agents kidnapped the Naaru being held in Silvermoon.
With the loss of Mu'ru the Blood Elves once again were without power and their Priests and Paladins found their Holy magic cut off completely. It was at this time Lady Liadrin sought A'dal's help and with his aide the Blood Elves were brought from a conniving and plotting race to a true member of the Horde.
The same situation applies to the Forsaken. If the Horde didn't truly see them as members then why would Thrall allow the Undercity refugees to seek shelter in Orgrimmar? During the Wrath gate, one of the largest "plots" of the Forsaken came to fruition, The Undead Plague 2.0, which could even kill Undead with it's toxic vapors. With this failure I think the Forsaken were purged of all of their traitorous members and are now actual members of the Horde.
But back on topic, you cant call Genocide peace. By that definition allowing the Burning Legion to assimilate the races of Azeroth, allowing the Titans to reformat the planet, or allowing Arthas to slay everyone, would be acceptable resolutions.
The fact is that the Humans weren't even first to settle on Azeroth, the Earthen, Trolls, Furbolgs, and a slew of others were around long before them. The Humans have no right to decide who belongs and who doesn't. A stable peace would be reached if it weren't for short sighted Humans like Daelen Proudmoore or Varian mucking things up.
Varian is the "loose cannon cop" of WoW and really needs to die before he blows up every fruit stand on the planet.
I am one horde and I have over 400,000 honorable kills. To assume 30 percent of those are humans seems safe. So making peace with me would save over 100,000 lives of
her people's
lives. It seems like that is in their best interest.
If you went by this logic then after the first time you died, ever, your threat would be over. Remember that time you pulled too many raptors in Durotar by accident? Yeah, 400,000 lives saved right there.
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