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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Haste and Mathematics!
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Post by
260787
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Post by
lbreithaupt
Do Shamans have a talent that increases the effect of Wrath of air?
I remember reading somewhere that haste is Always a multiplier, while crit is straight up addition. (Though we are not factoring in
Natures Grace
in a resto build, as the new version makes it less desirable for Trees.
As shown by Adoriele from
Elitist Jerks
Though in a different discussion (DPS)
Haste is Multiplicative from all sources.
As a side note, what are your thoughts on a Resto Build that takes
Natures Grace
?
While were at it, we might as well discuss
Living Seed
A 3 point talent i consider pretty useless.
Post by
142728
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260787
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317595
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Post by
170154
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260787
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Post by
curlymon
Not 100% certain but I think GotE is a wrong tooltip now because I don't think it affects Wild Growth, or if it still does then it doesn't actually make any difference due to the 6 second CD on it making the GCD irrelevent.
It does applyto Wild Growth. The effect is on the
GCD
though and this allows you to keep tossing hots out as needed.
Post by
260787
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142728
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260787
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Post by
Celdhyrean
Agree with Gorefiend, trying to measure differences of 0.1s with stopwatches is probably not going to give good results. There was a script to do something like print GCD in chatlog (i think) on EJ, i'll try to find that as it should be more helpfull.
(didn't find it yet :/)
Post by
260787
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Post by
Celdhyrean
Flattering me will get you nowhere !
The problem is that i'm only part time resto (though more often than i'd like since we have some big healer problems in my guild at the moment :/) and thus i won't have the same level of depth on resto TC that i have on balance.
Still, i know from balance that haste from different sources is supposed to work as **... , though problems can arise depending on how some talents/buffs are implemented.
This would give :
* GCD = 1.5*(1-GotEM) * 1/(1+gear) * 1/(1+iMkA) * 1/(1+WoAT)
We want GCD to be 1 so we get :
* (1+gear) = 1.5*(1-GotEM) * 1/(1+iMkA) * 1/(1+WoAT)
which is indeed the formula used in your 3rd case. That formula gives me the right amount of haste found in the table below too :
1.5*(1-20%)/-1 = 10.957%
The problem you had maybe is that in this formula you aren't looking at GotEM as a haste % but as a % of reduction applied to the GCD, so it is the 20% from the talent description that you have to use.
Still, this is based on hypothesises on how it is implemented, so testing it would really be the best way to see which is the right case.
Post by
317095
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260787
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Post by
Celdhyrean
I wasn't trying to get anywhere ._. Don't worry, just a jest :)
The problem when looking only at formulas is that it can be quite uncertain wether gotem applies before separately or goes with the rest or whatever. Which is why testing is always required to validate the theory (and i'm too lazy to do them).
I'm still not entirely sure why you would use 20%, since that's how much it's
reducing
the GCD by, and not the actual amount of haste, yet you use haste all throughout the rest of the equation.Because it reduces the GCD by 20%I didn't look in that direction really, it just made sense with the formula from 3). But after actually checking it, 1.5*1/(1+30%) doesn't give us the expected 1.2s GCD, we need a gotem worth 25% haste for that. There was probably a problem in your 30% evaluation based on something more linear than how haste actually works.
Though trying it out, 1/(1+25%) is indeed equal to 0.8, ie gotem is simply another 25% haste effect that gets added normally to the rest, and i could not have made it in a special case term.
Post by
curlymon
Much like Celd I'm a Boomkin TCer and can't confirm or deny anything :P Besides I've been wrong multiple times when looking into this set of calculations. That being said:
First of all to reduce a CD by 20% it is a 25% increase in haste not 30%. The calcs for GotEM are based on the cool down reduction. This causes you to calculate GotEM as 25% haste.
The idea is to get to 50% haste as that is the known number to reduce the GCD to 1 second.
50% haste = 1.5
1.5 = 1.25 * 1.05 * 1.03 * X
X =1.1095
or
10.95% haste
10.95 * 32.79 = 359.0505
This is how the numbers on resto4life work.
Oh and as always shoot my numbers down as I said a bit further up I've been wrong on this subject many, many times.
Edit: adjusting math
Edit2: math adjusted
Edit3+: Cleanup/clarity
Post by
317095
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Post by
Celdhyrean
@curlymoon : It's not *(1-haste%) but *1/(1+haste%), ie you want to solve 1=1.2/
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