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Deathwing, Twilight Dragonflight and the Old Gods
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Post by
Gnub
Revival addition:
With all the speculation about "Cataclysm", I decided to revive this thread, as it seems I got hold of some fitting side-points, and can now make more sense of some of the things that didn't make sense back then. Much of it revolves about Deathwing being connected to Ulduar - which we now now isn't true. Still, read it, and take part in the new discussion starting at
page 3
.
Orignal post below (from 4th of March 09):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello folks!
Over the course of quite some time, I have sketched together an idea of Deathwings connection to the Old Gods, Ulduar, the Twilight Dragonflight, and what's to become of the living denizens of Azeroth in the future.
Part 1: "Dragons and Old Gods" (from 31st of December, 08):
http://gnueless.com/2008/12/dragons-and-old-gods.html
Part 2: "From Twilight Till Dawn" (from 23rd of February, 09):
http://gnueless.com/2009/02/from-twilight-till-dawn.html
Part 3: "Twilight Omen" (from 4th of March, 09):
http://gnueless.com/2009/03/twilight-omen.html
I'm well aware this is *ALOT* of text to read, and should only be recommended to curious lore-nerds. I might have repeated myself during the posts, but - most importantly - I'm happy with the end result. You should be able to simply read "Part 3", but there might be things that are a bit unclear if you havn't read the previous two parts. I have included that below.
Enjoy the read, and be sure to post opinions and/or corrections. :)
Not too long after I post my previous theorizing on the whole Ulduar, Old Gods and Deathwing-connections, the 3.1.0 PTR opened up for good, and Ulduar testing was begun. As it has been going on for some time, I feel it should be time for me to post my - perhaps - final thoughts on the subject, before I’m either proven wrong by the game-content or proven right before I posted the last parts of my theories. Both would be sad. If you havn’t read any of it, refer to “dragons and old gods” and “from twilight till dawn“, in that order.
What we do know for certain however, is that Yogg’Saron will be the final boss in Ulduar. The fight has been datamined, and all kinds of stuff, so it’s quite certain that we won’t see Deathwing there. Still, there hasn’t been anything about the seemingly new “Wyrmrest”-content, as I mentioned in the post. That remains to be seen. Could be nothing, but why should I believe in that, of everyone…?
Anyway, my focus this time is a somehow new look at Deathwing’s role. It should be known to most that he got corrupted by the Old Gods around 10.000 years ago, at the time of the first Burning Legion invasion, leading to the creation of the Demon Soul, and so forth. Now, it’s unknown what specific Old God (or if it was merely one) corrupted Deathwing, but it’s not a far-stretch to assume that this all started at the Chamber of Aspects… in Northrend. Curious.
Why did Deathwing choose Grim Batol to let that be his “new main base”, when thinking of Sartharia, the origin of the Twilight Dragonflight, and all that? There’s correctly enough some past in the place with Alexstrasza being imprisoned by the use of the Demon Soul, but one this is being overlooked. What initially turned the whole place so evil, that it made the Wildhammer Dwarves fled, after they defeated the remaining Dark Irons? The evil taint was seemingly caused by the death of Modgud, without further explanation other than she cursed the place. It gets slightly interesting as we draw in the fact that she was the wife of Thaurissan, who not long after summoned Ragnaros into the world. Him being an elemental lieutenant of the Old Gods, it’s safe to make the connection that the magic the Dark Irons in general wielded was based off that power, and the seemingly extreme curse placed upon Grim Batol to be of the Old Gods.
To change the subject a bit, it’s worth it to point out that both Deathwing and Loken speaks of a new world being born (”Azeroth shall be reborn in darkness!”). Loken although, speaks of it as being the creation of his master, while Deathwing does not. This leads me to believe that Deathwing’s corruption is not only a corruption, but a complete possession, making him think that the thoughts are his own, while they in reality aren’t. He even uses this very trick on Sintharia, letting her believe that the Twilight Dragonflight was her creation and idea, where it was Deathwing all along. The intensity of the corruption is even more plausible, given by the fact that he is the Aspect of the Earth and Matter, wherein all Old Gods are buried and/or kept prisoners.
As a last word, remember all the similarities seen in and around Ulduar to Deathwing’s work. Race-experiments - check. Fondness of dragons and dwarfs - check (Armor-reinfoced Proto-Drakes in Ulduar.. Curious, once again). General armoring of selves by the use of the most extreme metals known - check. Plots of a new dark Azeroth, soon to be reborn - check.
Oh yeah… and then there’s a fact that I’ve overlooked from the beginning. The Old God worshipers have a cult called… Twilight’s Hammer. Strange “coincidence”, yet again - check.
Deathwing soon making his appearance and eradicating us all … we’ll see. Signs point to yes.
Post by
304510
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
Nice reading, very insightful.
Thanks, glad you liked it. :)
Maybe it's just a wild guess, but could it be possible that Deathwing is the one causing the Emerald Nightmare? After all the nightmare is doing to the Emerald Dream what Deathwing wants to do with Azeroth, being reborn in Darkness.
It has been hinted at many times, correct, but I havn't really looked for specific clues to it. SOMETHING is in there atleast, and it's not good. Then again, the same thing is happening to Nozdormu in the shape of our our favorite villains from the Caverns of Time. Another of Deathwing's dragonhybrids? Time will tell, eventually.
Maybe, if you're right about the possession, while his original mind is comatose the Old God possessing him can control his dreams. And he's an Aspect after all, i think his dreams could affect the Emerald Dream THAT much.
Why am I saying that? Because everyone is expecting the next Expasion to be about the Emerald Dream, but we don't have a final Villian for that. Everyone knew a long time before TBC that it's final boss would be Illidan, same about WotLK, but there are no more "known bad guys" around there. At least not know as most players knew about Illidan and Arthas, so Blizzard has to build or at least empower lore-wise a new great villian, more powerful than Illidan, more powerful than Arthas.
And if they wanna do that right they have to start it early. Maybe they're already doing it, and you just started to put the pieces togheter.
Could very well be. If it's correct that Deathwing does indeed have a claw into all this, there should certainly be something at that point, but hopefully more hints before that. :)
Post by
NeoBlackheart
So here is my question in the end who in the whole wow world is the most evil?
Post by
263772
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
So here is my question in the end who in the whole wow world is the most evil?
The Old Gods, I would say. They are the root of the most evil that has happened, without a doubt. One could argue that perhaps Sargeras is, as Grizel stated above, as alot wouldn't have happened if he wasn't corrupted.
Then again, both added something good aswell. Without the Old Gods, the Gnomes and Dwarves wouldn't have been as they are now. Without Sargeras corruption, the Draenei and Orcs wouldn't have come to Azeroth.
Slight derail :)
Post by
bwirum
Are the Titans and the Old Gods the same?
Does it show that I'm not a huge loreguy?
Post by
Gnub
Are the Titans and the Old Gods the same?
Nope, not at all. Read up a bit on wowwiki on the
Titans
and
Old Gods
, should give you some nifty background knowledge.
Anyway, I just added a rather major point to the last of my posts, as I just realized something I can't believe have slipped past my mind: The main (and only) cult of Old God Worshipers is called... Twilight's Hammer.
Post by
dumac
i think the latest theory is that the titan and old god is somehow connected. one theory is that the titan is a creation from some old gods but the titans rised up against them on their homeworld and cut the chain. the theory is kinda weak and is supported by that the old god can be summoned on up on another world beside azeroth(SMW q) and in the lore the titan first saw the old god on azeroth after returning they was not surprised about them(given an hint they have met them before on worlds).
But however they are connected the lore shows they have met before.
Post by
Gnub
i think the latest theory is that the titan and old god is somehow connected. one theory is that the titan is a creation from some old gods but the titans rised up against them on their homeworld and cut the chain. the theory is kinda weak and is supported by that the old god can be summoned on up on another world beside azeroth(SMW q) and in the lore the titan first saw the old god on azeroth after returning they was not surprised about them(given an hint they have met them before on worlds).
But however they are connected the lore shows they have met before.
Could you give some references as to where something like this is described? Also it's really not on the subject at hand. Countless of theories about everything, and it would be a major derail to try and discuss them all in one place, instead of the one I proposed.
Anyway, I thought I'd make it easier for the newcomers, so I'm simply going to include the whole latest post in my first one, as it's the most important one.
Post by
Gnub
Bump for interrested readers :)
Post by
Gnub
Bump for interrested readers :)
800+ reads, and only 5 have given comments...?
Where did all the lore-nerds go? :(
Post by
Gnub
Right, renamed the thread to be more fitting.
"Deathwing, the Twilight Dragonflight and the Old Gods", as that is essentially what it's all about.
I'm still puzzled as to how there's so many reads, and yet so few have commented.
Post by
278900
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
304510
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Looks like people just don't know what to say because you did such a good job.
This is...partially true.
I am a little busy right now, but I promise I will go into greater detail in your research and theories, and find something to pick on :)
Now, just to make sure I am not misunderstanding you - write a sentence or two summarizing the whole point you are trying to make. Because there are a few pretty bold claims up there, and I want to be sure that I am identifying the right one as your main.
Post by
Morec0
I have a dream for the Deathwing dungeon: Turalyon and Alleria will be featured in it.
My idea is that while Turalyon will be the leader of a new faction (similar to the Shatterd Sun Offensive from the Sunwell patch), however, Alleria will be featured as a boss in Grim Batol: Deathwings Lair. My idea is that once you kill her you can loot her corpse and be able to actually loot her corpse as an item.
This is where it get interesting: if you're Alliance, you take the corpse to Turalyon (who will be flagged as Alliance only for this reason, a Horde counterpart with similar quests will be included) and he will order one of him soldiers to execute him so that he can join him lover in death (collective Awwwww). Of course the phasing thing will have this occur ONLY for the person that turned in the quest, and he wont respawn. The officer that he ordered to kill him will then give attunment to Deathwing's lair (which will be located 'Molten Core sytle' inside the regualar 5 man dungeon where you killed Alleria) and a quest to kill Deathwing and bring his head back.
However! If you're Horde your quest has you take Alleria's corpse back to Sylvanas Windrunner in UC (You will still be awarded rep with the 'against deathwing faction' though). At this point, whereas Turalyon had himself killed, Sylvanas and her Banshee's will began to cast a spell of ressurection, which will revive Alleria as a Dark Ranger thing like Sylvanas, and make her an effective replacement for Varimatharis (allowing all those who didn't complete the quests before they killed Vari to do so). Alleria will then give the attunment and Horde-version of the quest that the officer did.
Even if you're Alliance, you will still have to face Alleria in UC if you've completed the quest (she will appear to any players that havn't for the duration of the battle before despawning (a: when you kill her or (b: when you wipe)
Tell me what you think!
EDIT: forgot about the Accord, they could be the ones there instead of a new faction, with Turalyon just being the Alliance representative.
Post by
206572
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
325248
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
Looks like people just don't know what to say because you did such a good job.
This is...partially true.
I am a little busy right now, but I promise I will go into greater detail in your research and theories, and find something to pick on :)
Oh my, being blind for a few days doesn't serve me too well it seems. I'd love to see what you got in mind Argent, constructive feedback/criticism is the best there is! Have at it! :)
Now, just to make sure I am not misunderstanding you - write a sentence or two summarizing the whole point you are trying to make. Because there are a few pretty bold claims up there, and I want to be sure that I am identifying the right one as your main.
Actually, I'm not quite sure there's a real borderline point in it, other than we'll surely be seeing Deathwing soon, and get content in Grim Batol.
Basically, it's based on the fact the huge amount of similarities between Yogg'Saron's general feel, and what we're heard about Deathwing (which has recently gotten his storyline "renewed" with "Night of the Dragon", the connection to Sartharion and the apperance of the characters from the novels).
While everyone knows that Deathwing was originally corrupted by the Old Gods, it was never really certain "who" did it, but it hints to the fact that it was indeed Yogg'Saron who started it all, which in the end caused the demise of Malygos.
... and, lastly, my favorite: Deathwing creates The Twilight Dragonflight. The Old Gods worshippers are... Twilight's Hammer.
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