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Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle
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Post by
262236
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Post by
53090
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Post by
visas
it gives 3% avoidance (1% dodge, 1% parry, 1% increased chance to be missed by attacks) before diminishing returns kicks in.
At most gear levels, I'd say that stoneskin gargoyle is better than swordshattering, even if you're already crit immune. It adds almost as much avoidance, but it also increases (as of the patch) the amount of damage your icebound fortitude absorbs, as well as providing a stamina increase. If we're really intended to tank with DPS 2handers, you'll need the extra stamina, since most DPS 2handers dont have a whole lot of stamina on them.
Post by
108903
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Post by
visas
Also consider how many gems/enchants you have to get you to uncrittable. When stoneskin goes live my HP, and dodge are going to go way way up
yea, thats another good point - if you use stoneskin over swordshattering, you dont have to focus as much gear or gems on defense, meaning you can aim for more avoidance and stamina in those slots.
Post by
195690
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Post by
visas
it gives 3% avoidance (1% dodge, 1% parry, 1% increased chance to be missed by attacks) before diminishing returns kicks in.
At most gear levels, I'd say that stoneskin gargoyle is better than swordshattering, even if you're already crit immune. It adds almost as much avoidance, but it also increases (as of the patch) the amount of damage your icebound fortitude absorbs, as well as providing a stamina increase. If we're really intended to tank with DPS 2handers, you'll need the extra stamina, since most DPS 2handers dont have a whole lot of stamina on them.
But surely this only applies if you are already close or at uncrittable? Because if you were to aim to hit the cap dead on then all you would gain is 2% stamina and then lose 4% Parry chance and Disarm duration reduction, or am I missing something entirely here?
defense still gives avoidance (dodge, parry, block, and miss) even after you get the 540 needed to become crit immune.
25 defense skill does the following:
-Reduces your chance to be crit by 1%
-Reduces the chance you will be hit by melee attacks by 1%
-Increases your parry chance by 1%
-Increases your dodge chance by 1%
-Increases your chance to block by 1% (not applicable to deathknights)
-Increases the amount of damage mitigation provided by icebound fortitude by 0.66% (only applicable to deathknights)
Now, past a certain point you do have diminishing returns kick in, which means it takes more defense to gain the same amount of avoidance, but it still does give some avoidance past crit immunity.
Post by
195690
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Post by
Afoxi
The defense cap isn't actually a cap, it's the point where it's impossible for a raid boss to crit you.
It still has benefits beyond 540, but you'd be sacrificing other stats if all you picked up was defense.
Personally though, I'd rather go swordshattering instead of stoneskin gargoyle.
EDIT: Reread the above post.
Yeah, stoneskin is a runeforge for people who cant make it to 540 defense IMO.
EDIT2: This brings an interesting possibility though. I'm gonna be that weird guy who walks around with 565 defense just for @#$%^ and giggles.
Post by
222558
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Post by
visas
yea, the benefit to stoneskin is that you can GIVE UP defense on your gear for better stats without losing crit immunity. With this rune, you only need to have 515 defense beforehand, which is only 115 defense skill (565.4 defense rating) from gear. It gives you that much more room to gem or gear towards stamina and avoidance instead.
Stoneskin allows you to give up 123 defense rating from gear and still remain crit immune =P
Post by
Infinitekaos
This rune gives a
straight
3% avoidance and is not affected by diminishing returns. A test on the PTR by Gravity of the avoidance was done and posted on deathknight.info forums.
Please see this post:
http://deathknight.info/forum/index.php?topic=5270.0
for info on Swordshattering vs. Gargoyle.
What this means is you will lost 1% avoidance and gain 2% stamina. Like many people here, I originally thought that Gorgoyle was going to be affected by the DR, but it seems it isn't at all, which is good news.
Because it is not affected by DR, this is probably the way most DK should go. The only reason you should not go with this Rune is if you are already at 540 defense WITHOUT
any
+defense gems or enchants.
For me, I will be able to replaec 3-4 gems, put agility on my cloak, and stamina on my chest. I think that is worth it even if I end up at 550-560 defense. This will also give me way more flexibility in using gear upgrades that drop.
Post by
122030
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Post by
218960
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Post by
184358
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Post by
Infinitekaos
The problem with the new rune over the 4% parry is the flat 4% parry is NOT subject to DR where as gains from def and straight stats is. The overall change being able to free up more gems for avoidence/EH isnt really effective, as gemming for more avoidence still nets you less overall gain due to DR. Also gemming for parry is not nearly as effeceint as gemming for def.
Incorrect, please read my post above. The new Gargoyle avoidance is not subject to DR. I thought it was at first too, but PTR testing shows otherwise.
The 4% parry rune is also not affected by DR so why is this a compelling reason to use gargoyle vs ss?
I realize Swordshatter isn't either, but you can probably make up the 1% in stuff like agility to cloak and a couple other gems. It will definately be more doable than if Gargoyle was subject to DR. You would also probably be able to drop Seal of the Pantheon for avoidance trinkets like
Valor Medal of the First War
. Even after DR, that trinket alone would be able to make up the lost avoidance from Pantheon + 1% from SS -> Gargoyle.
Once better gear comes out (maybe Ulduar raid?) and you don't have to gem for defense or enchant for it, swordshattering will be the way to go, imo.
Post by
184358
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Post by
Infinitekaos
Incorrect, please read my post above. The new Gargoyle avoidance is not subject to DR. I thought it was at first too, but PTR testing shows otherwise.
Lol you do realize that was just showing DR for stat stacking and not DR on incoming attacks right?
Diminshing returns on benefits of Defense(1% dodge, parry, miss) and Dodge Rating/Parry Rating only show during an encounter. When you succesfully dodge, parry or are missed your Dodge/Parry/Miss is recalculated and chance to consequtively do the same for future incoming attacks is reduced. This is done for a set amount of time and is then reset, i beleive to be around 15-20secs based on tests ran on patchwerk 10. Evedince being I have ~75% avoidence in 10man raids fully buffed as blood spec. Running DBM with the raid announce on for hateful strikes you can literally see when i'm at peak avoidence and when DR takes effect. I will usually string 6-9 avoidences then take a few hits 1-5 times with minimal avoidences in between then back up to 6-9 avoidences. And i tested this on the PTR's when the runeforge first came out and holds true to it does indeed suffer from DR on incoming swings.
That is the DR that is and is not effected by Stoneskin Gargoyle and Swordshattering respectively. When the kiddies over at dk.info understand that and learn to thouroughly gather test data then and only then will i rely on them for useful information, currently it is just a DK fan club website imho.
I would really like to see a WWS report or something that confirms this about consecutive swings changing the amount of avoidance you have. I have never heard of something like that before and I'd like to see some evidence to support that in some sort of in game data or something.
I'm not saying you're wrong or right, just intrigued about this because I have never heard of that before.
I personally don't think that's true at all but I might try and do some testing on it myself. As of right now I think that patchwork fight you pointed out is the victim of the RNG more than the theory you describe.
Edit: I'm still looking for any evidence to support your claim but still unable to find anything. Looked on Tankspot, EJ, wowwiki. Please help me with a link or something if you can Stokesey.
Post by
335030
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Post by
Nystali
Wow... super necro.
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