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Slam DPS Guide
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Post by
Kirbydude65
This is asked a lot about how 2h Warriors deal damage well in raids. This guide was created by Caesar of the European Moonglade server. This is not my guide and all credit belongs to him/her.
Update: 12/06/07
Adding The common 2h Slam builds that Caesar has named in his guide. Links will be here for the talent tress on wowhead.com. Weapon Specs can naturally be changed depending on whether or not you use a sword, axe, or polearm.
Link to the Guide it's self:
http://www.honorbound.se/Slamdps2.pdf
Table of Contents
I. How Slam Works
II. Data
III. Cycles
IV. Weapon Speed
V. The Real DPS Cycle
VI. Builds
VII. Slam DPS in Reality
I. How Slam Works
Slam has a cast time (non-interruptible) of 1.5 seconds, possible to talent to 0.5 seconds. When you start to cast it you stop the auto swing timer, and once you have finished the casting the auto swing is automatically restarted. The auto attack swing is RESET and starts over from the beginning again! Remember that slam still triggers the global cool down (1.5 seconds for warriors) so you cannot cast anything in 1.5 seconds even if you have talented slam. So why talent slam? Because the auto swing starts 1 second earlier! If you plan on casting one slam after another, there is little point in putting talent points in improved slam. The best way (as will be showed later in the cycles section) is to only cast one slam per auto swing attack.
II. Data
For comparison, let’s use the following numbers: Assume weapon dps is 131.5 (it was just easy to count on), and you roll at 3000 atp. All as unmitigated and non critical hits, but crit’s and mitigation alter all damages equal. Normal hit’s glancing blows have been calculated in to it’s damage. Note these numbers are only theoretical, and DPS numbers derived from these are only theoretical, they are good to compare to see which spec is the best, how weapons speed affect dps, and how they compare to each other. The derived DPS numbers however do not correspond do actual raid dps. I have calculated the different damages for different weapon speeds assuming the weapon speed is the only thing that changes. Note that slam is not normalized!
3.8 speed weapon
Normal Hit - 1235
Slam- 1454
Mortal Strike- 1417
Whirlwind- 1207
3.7 speed weapon
Normal Hit- 1211
Slam- 1419
Mortal Strike- 1404
Whirlwind- 1194
3.6 speed weapon
Normal Hit-1169
Slam-1385
Mortal Strike- 1391
Whirlwind- 1181
3.5 speed weapon
Normal Hit-1136
Slam-1351
Mortal Strike-1375
Whirlwind-1168
Slam triggers flurry, but do not consume flurry charges. So assuming you have good gear (30% + crit) you will virtually have flurry up constantly, thus I will assume it’s always up in my calculations.
III. Cycles
In the following examples no lag or reaction time is included, that is done under
weapon speed section. In this part only calculations for 3.8 speed weapons will be
done.
Auto swinging only: 406 dps.
Only rolling on auto-attack (flurried) will yield a dps of 1235 damage per attack / (3.8* (1/1.25)) = 406 dps
Slamming only: 969 dps.
Unrealistic since you will not have enough rage for it, but let’s count on it anyways with a 3.8 speed weapon (and no lag). 1454/1.5 = 969 dps
1 Auto attack, 1 slam: 760 dps.
The total attack time will be flurried attack speed + 0.5 seconds so (3.8*(1/1.25) +0.5), and the damage is 940 + 1140 so (1235+1454)/(3.8*(1/1.25) +0.5) = 760 dps.
1 auto attack, 2 slams: 822 dps
The total attack time will be flurried attack speed + 1.5 + 0.5 seconds so (3.8*(1/1.25) + 2.0), and the damage is 1235+1454*2 so (1235+1454*2)/(3.8*(1/1.25) +2.0) = 822 dps.
1 auto attack, 1 slam, 1 Whirl Wind: 1101 dps
Assuming WW only hit’s one target. The total attack time will be flurried attack speed + 0.5 seconds so (3.8*(1/1.25) + 0.5), and the damage is 1235 + 1454 + 1207 so (1235 + 1454 + 1207)/(3.8*(1/1.25) +0.5) = 1101 dps.
1 auto attack, 1 slam, 1 Mortal Strike: 1160 dps
The total attack time will be flurried attack speed + 0.5 seconds so (3.8*(1/1.25) +0.5), and the damage is 1235 + 1454 + 1417 so (1235 + 1454 + 1417)/(3.8*(1/1.25)+0.5) = 1160 dps.
IV. Weapon Speed
Let’s look at the 1 auto attack + 1 slam + 1 instant attack cycle above. As we can see there is some time in the end where we do pretty much nothing. In order to make the best cycle your hasted attack speed can never go below 2.5 seconds, if it does you will interrupt the cycle. But even 2.5 seconds is too little, you have to count in the lag and reaction time. After slam gcd has ended you have a ping roundtrip time before you can do your MC or WW. And after the auto attack has landed there will be a ping time + reaction time before your slam is registered at the server. With a ping of 100 ms, and a reaction time of total 0.25 sec (reacting to auto hit = 0.2 sec and hammering MS button after Slam = 0.05 sec) minimum swing time would be 2.85 seconds. Ie it’s bad to have an auto swing faster than 2.85 seconds (flurried/hasted), thats a 3.6 weapon. If you start casting slam before your auto hit lands, and virtually remove all lag (read on mages /cancel casting type of macros addons to understand how this works), you can use a 3.5 speed weapon. Do not forget to count in your haste gear (which is a great way to reduce you cycle time if you use a 3.8 speed weapon for example).
Lets see how weapon speed affects the 1 attack, 1 slam 1 MS cycle. All weapons will be considered being flurried constantly. Included is also latency and reaction time ():
3.8 speed weapon: 1055
(1235 + 1454 + 1417 ) / (3.8*(1/1.25) + 0.5 + 0.35) = 1055
3.7 speed weapon: 1059
(1211 + 1419 + 1404 ) / (3.7*(1/1.25) + 0.5 + 0.35) = 1059
3.6 speed weapon: 1059
(1169 + 1385 + 1391 ) / (3.6*(1/1.25) + 0.5 + 0.35) = 1059
3.5 speed weapon: 1060*
(1136 + 1351 + 1378 ) / (3.5*(1/1.25) + 0.5 + 0.35) = 1060*
*But since you would destroy the dps cycle, this DPS is lower!
As we can see slow weapon = more damage is a myth. While the hit’s will be weaker you will also increase the amount’s of slams and mortal strikes. However if you slack and have bad reaction time, high lag, poor fps etc, go with the safer option of a really slow weapon, it’s easier.
Post by
Kirbydude65
V. The Real DPS Cycle
So we can’t do the MS cycle every cycle, because MS has a 6 sec cooldown. You can however use it every other. The cycle in between is ofc the WW attack. We can also draw the conclusion that reducing the MS cool down (although that talent also increases damage, it’s still a waste since you can’t take imp flurry then) is a waste, as is reducing the cooldown on WW. WW has a 12 second cooldown so that only usable to fill every other hole from the MS cycles, what should we do in between? The 1 autoattack + 1 slam or 1 autoattack + 2 slam? The 2 slam cycle is higher dps but takes 1.6 second (lag included) longer to complete, that one and a half second could be spent on the 900+ dps cycles. (comparing 1 auto attack + 2 slams + 1 auto attack + 1 slam + 1 MS vs. 1 auto attack + 2 slams + 1 auto attack + 1 slam + 1 MS shows that using only 1 slam is slightly better). So never double slam, even if MS and WW are on cooldown, it just costs rage and lowers your dps. Use the time to recast Battle Shout or something, if you have excess rage use Heroic Strike/Cleave to up your dps. Remember that the risk of rage starvation is high when using heroic strikes, and if you rage starve so you cannot cast MS. Use HS in situations where you are certain there is no or very little chance you will rage starve. Cleave can be used a little more freely if you dps two targets, but it costs a lot of rage in rage not gained from yellow attacks, so if you are short in rage: don’t.
The best possible dps cycle is thus:
1. 1 Auto attack, 1 Slam, 1 Mortal Strike.
2. 1 Auto attack, 1 Slam, 1 Whirl Wind.
3. 1 Auto attack, 1 Slam, 1 Mortal Strike.
4. 1 Auto attack, 1 Slam.
Repeat..
VI. Builds
33/28/0
This is a very nice starter spec, and having Blood Frenzy will up raid dps by a fair amount. Big back draw is that you only get 3/5 in flurry, and that hurt’s your dps a lot. However the extra dps the Blood Frenzy gives is threat free (you evenly spread the increased raid dps, especially to classes with threat dumps which you lack) so it’s a nice spec none the less. If you are the only dps warrior in the raid and you use a lot of melee dps, this is probably the best spec. As you will not have full flurry, you can also grab the 3.5 speed weapons with good confidence!
Link:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czAbog0dZVf0V0gRc
(Note 5/5 Points can be taken into Improved Demo Shout if a warlock diligently puts curse of recklessness on the boss. )
31/30/0
This is a nice all-round slam dps spec, if you have 2 slam warriors in the raid and the other warrior is 33/28/0 you should choose this, especially if you are geared in tier 4 (or equivalent) or lower.
Link:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czAbog0zZVf0V0gRV
(Note 5/5 Points can be taken into Improved Demo Shout if a warlock diligently puts curse of recklessness on the boss. )
20/41/0
Once you get your gear sorted and is in the 3k+ atp raidbuffed monster this spec will out-dps the others. The normal attacks and slam attacks will do extreme damage, and you really need to start watching your threat. If you have the gear, go for it. Just as a comparison to the above numbers (with 10% more atp, and Rampage up) the numbers
would be:
3.8 speed weapon
Normal Hit- 1382
Slam- 1522
Bloodthirst- 1609
Whirlwind- 1343
The corresponding Hit-Slam-Blood Thirst cycle dps would be: 1275. Note that this build scales a lot better with gear than the MS build, if you have worse gear you will do less damage than the MS build, and vice versa if you normally have 4k atp, the difference between the two builds will be even bigger! Although you will loose your weapon spec, but gain 3% free hit. No lag/reactiontime was included in this calculation, so compare it with the 1160 dps of the MS cycle.
Link:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czIbZVf0VzgRVuVo
(Note 5/5 Points can be taken into Improved Demo Shout if a warlock diligently puts curse of recklessness on the boss. )
VII. Slam DPS in Reality
Slam dps is a lot harder to play than fury warriors if you want to be #1 dps. It’s no mindless spamming and you need to keep track on a lot of cool downs, especially if being fury 2 hand slam warrior (which has the highest potential for your own dps). If you are not prepared to give 110% don’t try it, you will be disappointed, go dual wielding fury as it’s a lot easier to play.
Get an auto swing timer. It’s a must have.
Shaman is a must have in your group. It’s extremely vital you have a WF totem all the time. Yes even after the wf nerf. You will rage-starve otherwise.
Slam dps is fairly easy to get gear for, while dual wielding is much more requiring. 2h fury slam scales extremely well with gear. Slam dps have one big back draw; you can’t run around. In very mobile fights, you can just forget about being top dps. Static fights is where you will shine.
Post by
63872
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Post by
102979
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Post by
shizreborn
Slam does work well, it is just a lot of concentration. The new WW though with 2 2.6 speed weapons would now count as a 5.2 speed weapon(minus 25% damage from the OH), meaning you can get some awesome double crits. The new WW might out dps the slam idea now though.
Post by
Kirbydude65
Slam does work well, it is just a lot of concentration. The new WW though with 2 2.6 speed weapons would now count as a 5.2 speed weapon(minus 25% damage from the OH), meaning you can get some awesome double crits. The new WW might out dps the slam idea now though.
I'm not quite sure why anyone in there right mind would Slam with a one handed weapon.
But If someone would like to post a dual wield fury guild I'd be all for it!
Post by
warrior
I've tried both 31/30 and 20/41 (pre-2.3). I came to a conclusion that 20/41 is better DPS as I was pulling a lot more aggro (sadly, comes the repair bill). So, with the new threat reduction from imp zerker stance, there shouldn't be a problem. 2H DPS can be really fun if you have the gear for it, especially with windfury. 4K white crits followed by 4K slam crits are brutal.
Post by
Avion
Hmm, and i allways thought it was 100 rage, Slam, Slam, Slam, Slam, Slam, Slam, Slam Repeat xD
Post by
39318
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Post by
39318
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Post by
Kirbydude65
Um i was wondering does this strat work the same for pvp or not as reccomended?
Usually not advised for PVP, however slam is very handy in PVP situations if you know when to use it.
For example right after a 3 second intercept stun you can auto attack and than slam. Or if the healer or target is stationary and doesn't move its another great time to do so.
Every now and than I can hamstring and than pull of a slam in PVP but its quite difficult.
Most people feel that .5 seconds isn't short enough to actually be usable on the majority of PVP targets. Which is true since most of your targets don't stop moving.
Post by
39318
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Post by
90791
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Post by
Arideni
Rather then 1white, 1slam, 1ms. I've been using 1white, 1MS, 1HS. My justification for this is that HS still procs WF. So on some cycles I could get 2WF procs, while with the slam rotation I could get 1 max.
I never took calculus or statistics so I won't go into that amount of detail here, but I will say this:
The unpredictable, uncontrollable nature of Windfury swings dictate that while you could surpass the methods described in the Slam DPS guide by using HS over Slam, it is highly unlikely you would be able to produce a sustainable output of that calibre in a real situation.
At least, without further knowledge, that is my take on things.
Perhaps it would be wiser to simply add Heroic Strike as a rage dump, instead of replacing Slam in the attack pattern altogether.
Post by
90791
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Post by
Arideni
All true, but the question is "Which attack pattern (Slam rotations or Heroic Strike rotations) will prove to have the highest possible damage output?"
The only real way to know is for you to do the math so we can all understand your hypothesis to it's fullest extent!
hehe <3
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90791
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99228
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Post by
blademeld
mind linking the builds?
Post by
Kirbydude65
mind linking the builds?
Sure I'd be more than willing to if you'd give me a quick moment.
Edit: Links to the three builds have been added. Naturally you can change the weapon sepc depending on whether or not you use a Sword, Axe, Or Polearm.
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