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10.2.5
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Huntards
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Post by
453482
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Randoom
use your mount/carry a pvp trinket/learn to fight them/etc
i really dont know much about arcane mages tbh, i think if theres that many annoying you go frost/fire.
hunters will always fire and use pets, you just have to learn (your own way) how to deal with them, personally im a pally and i can follow them almost anywhere for any amount of time and show them whos boss :P
i wish you luck and hopefully someone else posts something more useful for you than me.
Post by
549652
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
481452
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Let's assume he's a survival hunter (e.g. doesn't have Readiness)
PoM sheep, get in melee range. Slow>AB>ABarr. Frost Nova. Another AB>ABarr. When he disengages, blink to him. Keep slow up, AB>ABarr when you get the chance, spam ABarr in melee range if he's trying to kite. Sheep pet during deterrence.
Fire Ward absorbs explosive shot, use mana shield sparingly, use instant invis to avoid the kill shot if you're low.
Ice Block if he's BM and he pops TBW, use Mirror Images to pull pet off of you for 1 or 2 GCDs, if he's Marks and knows what he's doing bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. Might win if you get a full sheep + frost nova on pet, and get a full evocate off. GL;HF.
Post by
leuitinet
As a SV Hunter we can CC you as well as you CC us.
Wyvern Sting
,
Scatter Shot
,
Entrapment
with various traps, and with
Deterrence
we can got seconds of immunity.
Also there are many pets that are caster hate, snares, and stuns. Bats, Ravagers, Serpents, Nether-Rays, Core-Hounds, Spiders, Crabs. I mean the list goes on and on.
Hunters cause alot of issues for many classes. I think beating a Hunter is like beating every other class. Just steady them and stay out of LoS lol
Look at fighting a Hunter like fighting one of your own. We cant kill you if we cant see you. Work your kiting and LoS, and things will look up
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
As a SV Hunter we can CC you as well as you CC us.
Wyvern Sting
,
Scatter Shot
,
Entrapment
with various traps, and with
Deterrence
we can got seconds of immunity.
Also there are many pets that are caster hate, snares, and stuns. Bats, Ravagers, Serpents, Nether-Rays, Core-Hounds, Spiders, Crabs. I mean the list goes on and on.
Hunters cause alot of issues for many classes. I think beating a Hunter is like beating every other class. Just steady them and stay out of LoS lol
Look at fighting a Hunter like fighting one of your own. We cant kill you if we cant see you. Work your kiting and LoS, and things will look up
Coming from a decent mage to you, I advise you do the exact opposite of everything this guy suggested.
Post by
leuitinet
As a SV Hunter we can CC you as well as you CC us.
Wyvern Sting
,
Scatter Shot
,
Entrapment
with various traps, and with
Deterrence
we can got seconds of immunity.
Also there are many pets that are caster hate, snares, and stuns. Bats, Ravagers, Serpents, Nether-Rays, Core-Hounds, Spiders, Crabs. I mean the list goes on and on.
Hunters cause alot of issues for many classes. I think beating a Hunter is like beating every other class. Just steady them and stay out of LoS lol
Look at fighting a Hunter like fighting one of your own. We cant kill you if we cant see you. Work your kiting and LoS, and things will look up
Coming from a decent mage to you, I advise you do the exact opposite of everything this guy suggested.
So you advise the OP to get out in the open? Yes, we are both able to attack, but ist a risky move. You stay in a Hunter's LoS, and you are subject to a world of hurt. Yeah you can dish it out the same amount of dmg, but there is alot that a we can do to to cause more trouble than we're worth.
Viper Sting
will always be up, and a mage with no mana is a dead mage.
Post by
Squishalot
Coming from a decent mage to you, I advise you do the exact opposite of everything this guy suggested.
So you advise the OP to get out in the open? Yes, we are both able to attack, but ist a risky move. You stay in a Hunter's LoS, and you are subject to a world of hurt. Yeah you can dish it out the same amount of dmg, but there is alot that a we can do to to cause more trouble than we're worth.
Viper Sting
will always be up, and a mage with no mana is a dead mage.
Yes. If a fight takes more than a minute (for Viper Sting to be even moderately effective, 39% mana over 60 seconds?), then someone's dead already. Viper Sting will only be a problem if the mage spams Arcane Blast without pushback, in which case, the hunter doesn't stand much chance in an open field.
Post by
leuitinet
Coming from a decent mage to you, I advise you do the exact opposite of everything this guy suggested.
So you advise the OP to get out in the open? Yes, we are both able to attack, but ist a risky move. You stay in a Hunter's LoS, and you are subject to a world of hurt. Yeah you can dish it out the same amount of dmg, but there is alot that a we can do to to cause more trouble than we're worth.
Viper Sting
will always be up, and a mage with no mana is a dead mage.
Yes. If a fight takes more than a minute (for Viper Sting to be even moderately effective, 39% mana over 60 seconds?), then someone's dead already. Viper Sting will only be a problem if the mage spams Arcane Blast without pushback, in which case, the hunter doesn't stand much chance in an open field.
The Hunter will have more than a simple mana sting up. You wont be able to spam any thing without having something causing pushback. Theres the pet, and if you standing still so will allowing for an effective
Rapid Fire
, and assuming the Hunter is SV than theres what I stated already. Theres plently of CC. Also,
Freezing Arrow
is more effective and renders you at the Hunter's mercy.
Than there's the MM spec, which is more caster hate then SV. With Readiness, Silencing, Chimeric, and Aimed shot, and the ability to spam Steady Shot, there is alot dmg and CC coming your way. Also with talents like
Piercing Shots
adds that extra dmg from crits and
Wild Quiver
for that 'free' shot, makes the idea of standing still for a MM Hunter a terrible idea.
Post by
540548
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
453482
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
You wont be able to spam any thing without having something causing pushback.
Let me refer you to
Arcane Stability
.
Theres the pet, and if you standing still so will allowing for an effective
Rapid Fire
If you're going to use cooldowns, then I'll LoS you for the duration of it. I'm not going to stand and deliver to a bubbled Paladin either.
and assuming the Hunter is SV than theres what I stated already. Theres plently of CC. Also,
Freezing Arrow
is more effective and renders you at the Hunter's mercy.
You think that the Mage isn't going to be CC'ing either? Since you're not going to be attacking while he's frozen, all that earns you is 13% mana drain.
Than there's the MM spec, which is more caster hate then SV. With Readiness, Silencing, Chimeric, and Aimed shot, and the ability to spam Steady Shot, there is alot dmg and CC coming your way.
Mages don't heal, Silencing Shot is on cooldown, and Chimera Shot has no particularly bad effects other than damage.
Also with talents like
Piercing Shots
adds that extra dmg from crits and
Wild Quiver
for that 'free' shot, makes the idea of standing still for a MM Hunter a terrible idea.
Arcane Blast does 1185 to 1377 damage normally. Add SP coefficient 80.43% with *only* 2000 SP gives you about average 2880 damage.
Torment the Weak +12% = 3225 damage.
Spell Impact + 6% = 3418 damage.
Arcane Instability + 3% = 3521 damage.
Arcane Power + 20% = 4225 damage. (Since we're using cooldowns)
Incineration + 6% = 4478 damage.
With a 40% crit rate and a 75% crit strike bonus, average damage goes to 5,821 damage.
Arcane Blast 2: +18% = 6,868 damage.
Arcane Blast 3: +36% = 7,916 damage.
Arcane Blast 4: +54% = 8,964 damage.
Arcane Blast 5: +72% = 10,012 damage.
Even a reasonably undergeared mage will have 2 second AB casts. So in 10 seconds of stationary casting time, the mage can dish out 39,581 damage, of which, perhaps 25% will be crits (and reduced by resilience accordingly).
With your silencing shot, that's 13 seconds worth of battle time. 15 seconds if you blow Readiness as well (diminishing returns), and this is a very undergeared mage.
You can say that hunters will subject you to a world of hurt. But so too can mages. At the end of the day, it'll be player vs player, the class is moreorless irrelevant, because it'll be about who freezes (no pun intended) under the pressure and makes the mistake.
Post by
Godwolf
@ Squishalot
I admire your math on this subject. Truly. But I would like to point that this is PvP. Not PvE. So for all basic purposes... It's almost totally worthless.
Hunters are beatable. But you're a mage. Everything is beatable. Hunters, however, are on the far end of that scale.
First of all, if a hunter really, really allows an Arcane mage pop full cooldowns and then get off a 4 stack Ab, it wasn't a fair fight. Because the hunter is really, really bad. Hunters are -vicious- against any class with a cast time.
Wyvern sting resets your AB counter.
Scatter shot + FD resets your AB counter.
Deterrance resets your AB counter.
A well timed Disengage can reset an AB counter.
Ice Trap (whatever it's called) resets an AB counter.
Your cooldowns amount to nothing against a hunter if they play it right. If you stand in the open against them, you will lose. They have the range, the on demand CC (Mage CC is designed to kite and remove, via slows and Sheep.) and the damage.
You can beat them at range, to a degree. But it's not what you should do.
However, neither is trying to LoS them. Whoever suggested this is just... Bad. The reality is, hunters don't have cast times. Mages do. Hunter wins. A Survival hunter can turn a corner, and do nothing but drop Exshot and an Auto shot. Bam. Nothing you have has that sort of power. If you insist on playing such a game, they'll whittle you down first, leaving their pet on you and waiting for you to try and deal with it, then blasting away at you.
In an LoS situation, it does reduce their damage. But they have a better class set up for dealing with it.
So, I know what you're asking. How CAN a mage beat a hunter?
DUH. Melee range. Get up close. Use Slow and Frost Nova. Get up close and blast away before he can get away. Don't be afraid to stick with Abarr and Fire Blast. You're doing plenty of damage, he's doing basically none. Save cooldowns for when he gets away. Sheep to get close if he starts far, run up. If he trinkets, sheep again. Blink a disengage, hug him when he deterrances. Trinket Wyvern, Ice Block Ice Trap. Shatter will hurt you, but that's why you keep up Mana Shield / Fire Ward.
Stay close and profit. Stay far, die. LoS, die slower.
This is in general, and assuming roughly equivalent gear/skill. If they're terrible, just nuke 'em down. If they're fantastic, enjoy death.
IF they're MM, enjoy death.
If they're BM,lulz.
Post by
leuitinet
Commenting on melee range. True we Hunters arent the best while in melee, but we can melee to a degree.
Raptor Strike
, and
Mongoose Bite
are always relieable for those unexpected melee moments. Most Hunters dont use these, and it too bad they dont. A strong slow 2hander will make these attacks more dangerous than one might think. Also, RS is our next melee attack, and MB is instant, so they will land fairly quick one after the other. Being in melee also lets us apply our own slowlying effect via
Wing Clip
. They removed the Improved Wing Clip talent so its not as effective as it use to be.
Also another disadvantage to being melee with a Hunter, is the traps. You will always get hit with the trap, and there are so many to choose from.
Immolation
and if its glyphed it will hurt,
Explosive
also glyphed will allow possible crits on ticks,
Snake
, which all casters will hate,
Freezing
and
Frost
, which proc
LnL
, make melee range almost as dangerous as ranged.
Im not sayin that Hunters are beasts at both ranged and melee, but we are very flexible with both. Mages bring the pain just as bad as we do, and can adapt just as quick to any situtation. Most Hunters panic when forced to melee, but those like me, will use what melee we have. We will still try to get out of melee, but not without landing a few blows.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Commenting on melee range. True we Hunters arent the best while in melee, but we can melee to a degree.
Raptor Strike
, and
Mongoose Bite
are always relieable for those unexpected melee moments. Most Hunters dont use these, and it too bad they dont. A strong slow 2hander will make these attacks more dangerous than one might think. Also, RS is our next melee attack, and MB is intant, so they will come follow land fairly quick one after the other. Being in melee also lets us apply our own slowlying effect via
Wing Clip
. They moved the Improved Wing Clip talent so its not as effective as it use to be.
Also another disadvantage to being melee with a Hunter, is the traps. You will always get hit with the trap, and there are so many to choose from.
Immolation
and if its glyphed it will hurt,
Explosive
also glyphed will allow possible crits on ticks,
Snake
, which all casters will hate,
Freezing
and
Frost
, which proc
LnL
, make melee range almost as dangerous as ranged.
Im not sayin that Hunters are beasts at both ranged and melee, but we are very flexible with both. Mages bring the pain just as bad as we do, and can adapt just as quick to any situtation. Most Hunters panic when forced to melee, but those like me, will use what melee we have. We will still try to get out of melee, but not without landing a few blows.
I suggest hitting level 80 before discrediting our dueling strategies that we've all practiced and know that work.
Post by
SongCry
Its just a matter of bursting them down before they can burst you down.
Post by
leuitinet
Commenting on melee range. True we Hunters arent the best while in melee, but we can melee to a degree.
Raptor Strike
, and
Mongoose Bite
are always relieable for those unexpected melee moments. Most Hunters dont use these, and it too bad they dont. A strong slow 2hander will make these attacks more dangerous than one might think. Also, RS is our next melee attack, and MB is intant, so they will come follow land fairly quick one after the other. Being in melee also lets us apply our own slowlying effect via
Wing Clip
. They moved the Improved Wing Clip talent so its not as effective as it use to be.
Also another disadvantage to being melee with a Hunter, is the traps. You will always get hit with the trap, and there are so many to choose from.
Immolation
and if its glyphed it will hurt,
Explosive
also glyphed will allow possible crits on ticks,
Snake
, which all casters will hate,
Freezing
and
Frost
, which proc
LnL
, make melee range almost as dangerous as ranged.
Im not sayin that Hunters are beasts at both ranged and melee, but we are very flexible with both. Mages bring the pain just as bad as we do, and can adapt just as quick to any situtation. Most Hunters panic when forced to melee, but those like me, will use what melee we have. We will still try to get out of melee, but not without landing a few blows.
I suggest hitting level 80 before discrediting our dueling strategies that we've all practiced and know that work.
You assume I discredit your classes stratugies? You would be wrong my good sir/madam. Im merely diving deeper into the Hunter class. Many players think that Hunters are extremely weak when forced to melee, and its not true. Like each caster and ranged class, we all must adapt when forced into melee, and all Ive done is state what the Hunter class has available when forced to melee. By no means did I try to discredit Mages in any way. If you found my posts offensive, I do offer my apologizes.
Post by
TheReal
Skill > Class
/thread
I've beaten hunters in 1v1, some barely and some roflstomps. Hunters have also beaten me. Again, some barely and some roflstomps.
As a mage, I've found the best strategy is to get in close and don't let the hunter get away. In 1v1 situations, I'd say I win 60-65% of the time with this strategy.
Post by
Godwolf
Commenting on melee range. True we Hunters arent the best while in melee, but we can melee to a degree.
Raptor Strike
, and
Mongoose Bite
are always relieable for those unexpected melee moments. Most Hunters dont use these, and it too bad they dont. A strong slow 2hander will make these attacks more dangerous than one might think. Also, RS is our next melee attack, and MB is intant, so they will come follow land fairly quick one after the other. Being in melee also lets us apply our own slowlying effect via
Wing Clip
. They moved the Improved Wing Clip talent so its not as effective as it use to be.
Also another disadvantage to being melee with a Hunter, is the traps. You will always get hit with the trap, and there are so many to choose from.
Immolation
and if its glyphed it will hurt,
Explosive
also glyphed will allow possible crits on ticks,
Snake
, which all casters will hate,
Freezing
and
Frost
, which proc
LnL
, make melee range almost as dangerous as ranged.
Im not sayin that Hunters are beasts at both ranged and melee, but we are very flexible with both. Mages bring the pain just as bad as we do, and can adapt just as quick to any situtation. Most Hunters panic when forced to melee, but those like me, will use what melee we have. We will still try to get out of melee, but not without landing a few blows.
I suggest hitting level 80 before discrediting our dueling strategies that we've all practiced and know that work.
You assume I discredit your classes stratugies? You would be wrong my good sir/madam. Im merely diving deeper into the Hunter class. Many players think that Hunters are extremely weak when forced to melee, and its not true. Like each caster and ranged class, we all must adapt when forced into melee, and all Ive done is state what the Hunter class has available when forced to melee. By no means did I try to discredit Mages in any way. If you found my posts offensive, I do offer my apologizes.
No, Leu is 100% correct. A well played hunter is not a joke for a clothie in melee range. It will hurt. The damage doesn't disappear. It's just nothing compared to the ranged damage. I stand by what I said, you must be able to play some of the fight in melee range, because your damage is significantly higher than their's there.
Getting into melee against a hunter when the mage has 3k HP left isn't going to help. A good hunter is going to drop any form of trap, press the melee buttons and kill you anyways. It's a strategy and a weak point, not a LUL I BEAT ME A HUNTER.
On a second note, whoever said "Skill> Class/gear/spec/whatever" NO KIDDING? Really? Stop trolling. This is a forum discussing the nuances of playing a mage in any situation someone can conceive of. We must, MUST be able to take conversations past "Lul get skilled" or there's just no point. "How do I beat a warlock" : "Get skill." "How do I improve my DPS on Putricide" : "Get skill". Worthless, elitist forums. Those kinds of comments aren't necessary.
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