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Sorry Frost Mage Raiders - Avg DPS Results Are In
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Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
108118
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Post by
49871
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Post by
Squishalot
I'm just sus about the methods that resulted in counting Arcane mages with a min dps of 7443, fire mages with min dps of 3272, and
frost mages with min dps of 106
.
I wonder how many of these people are players who are Frost with the intention of min/maxing as frost, and how many are frost because they don't know any better / can't afford dual spec.
Post by
josephles32
I will say that it is all about what you find to be the most fun playing. I am a fire mage, and really enjoy the big hits. But I am also spec'd for the FFB talent tree, and get some pretty good dps that way too. Yes, I agree, arcane is going to be higher dps, but I love playing my fire mage. I could see the fun as frost too. You know this will all be subject to change when the new expansion comes out too. Frost could move to top of the list, who knows.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
What the hell? 12k on Saurfang? Jeez, even my theoretical max DPS is 11k, standing still and chugging CDs per CD, and eating up PI's, and I'd have to skip swapping to blood beasts.
Also, on topic, yeah Frost isn't exactly the best spec to use for raiding atm. All of the other replenishment providing classes do thousands more DPS, and even demo warlocks are viable, which provide both 5% crit with just one shadowbolt, and provide a mean spellpower buff (400-600 spellpower from my guild's crappily geared one).
Post by
darkdog
Well a guy I know from IRC has set up a script to pull the DPS numbers from WoL and average them based on spec. Well results aren't very promising for our frost raiding members:
Blood Prince Council
Run started at Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:06:17 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Blood_Prince_Council 25N - (188/193 records used) = 8116 (Max: 10018, Min: 7443)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Blood_Prince_Council 25N - (191/191 records used) = 5421 (Max: 7998, Min: 3272)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Blood_Prince_Council 25N - (36/36 records used) = 1642 (Max: 6011, Min: 106)
Deathbringer
Run started at Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:46:46 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Deathbringer_Saurfang 25N - (150/200 records used) = 10323 (Max: 12358, Min: 9833)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Deathbringer_Saurfang 25N - (91/173 records used) = 8370 (Max: 9983, Min: 7519)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Deathbringer_Saurfang 25N - (38/142 records used) = 5287 (Max: 7196, Min: 4682)
Festergut
Run started at Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:14:03 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Festergut 25N - (156/191 records used) = 10091 (Max: 11390, Min: 9546)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Festergut 25N - (141/178 records used) = 8412 (Max: 9944, Min: 7652)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Festergut 25N - (28/33 records used) = 5135 (Max: 7031, Min: 1233)
Lady Death
Run started at Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:50:28 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Lady_Deathwhisper 25N - (79/115 records used) = 9654 (Max: 11899, Min: 8815)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Lady_Deathwhisper 25N - (95/160 records used) = 7821 (Max: 9302, Min: 7147)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Lady_Deathwhisper 25N - (31/137 records used) = 4935 (Max: 6918, Min: 3713)
Lord Marrow:
Run started at Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:50:34 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Lord_Marrowgar 25N - (156/200 records used) = 9280 (Max: 11139, Min: 8753)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Lord_Marrowgar 25N - (50/93 records used) = 7885 (Max: 9811, Min: 6913)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Lord_Marrowgar 25N - (20/117 records used) = 3862 (Max: 5793, Min: 3069)
Professor:
Run started at Fri, 22 Jan 2010 06:05:57 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Professor_Putricide 25N - (190/200 records used) = 7677 (Max: 8976, Min: 7275)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Professor_Putricide 25N - (197/200 records used) = 6463 (Max: 8207, Min: 5344)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Professor_Putricide 25N - (4/4 records used) = 4739 (Max: 5314, Min: 4123)
Rotface:
Run started at Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:44:40 -0600
Mage:
Average DPS - Arcane Mage - Rotface 25N - (179/200 records used) = 9358 (Max: 11566, Min: 8799)
Average DPS - Fire Mage - Rotface 25N - (145/187 records used) = 7897 (Max: 9733, Min: 7142)
Average DPS - Frost Mage - Rotface 25N - (30/38 records used) = 3948 (Max: 6609, Min: 855)
Alot of the min number you have for frost are screwing up the avgs. With such a small sample size even 1 bad dps at 106 can lower the avg by hundreds if not thousands. Therefore take out all the retarded number under say 2000 and reavg it and see what you get. (Frost will still be lowest but it won't be stupid low like Blood Prince Council)
Post by
karlusdavius
The sample size is way too low. You need a minimum of 1000 to get even remotely accurate data. That said, most of the top guilds mages are rolling Acrane as main and fire as off-spec to the movement fights.
I'm looking forward to see what cataclysm brings.
Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Yeah, but what guilds are bringing frost mages doing 100 dps? Leaving a water elemental out to dry would give you a higher dps!
It just casts doubt on the reliability of the numbers.
Post by
karlusdavius
1000 sources gives more data, the more data you get the more accurate the average amount will be. That's simple math i learnt way back! if you want me to cite it then you need to go back to school. You need more data before posting something like this and going "AMG FORST IZ BAD!"
QQ moar!
Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Review for yourself:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Blood_Prince_Council/25N/Frost_Mage/
They are doing something which is getting absorbed so I'm assuming hitting the balls in the air, which is maybe why they are frost for mana efficiency. Sometimes certain specs do serve a purpose.
Thanks Goldish.
I can't get access to the dynamic graphs, but during off-peak times, you can probably check it out to confirm your suspicions. I don't know the fight, but from what you're saying, it matches up with him using 400 odd Ice Lances throughout the fight. If so, then it's all the more reason why some of those numbers shouldn't be trusted.
In this particular instance, it'd be like saying that a Holy Priest has low DPS, and therefore sucks :P
Post by
karlusdavius
You missed the point of my question to you. You simply saying 1000 with no reason other then "uhh moar is betta", is like me responding with, "No you need 10,000 data points for accurate results" neither of them mean anything.
If you can get 10,00 then even better. I'm just saying those frost numbers are useless because the sample size is so low.
Post by
Erethzium
The frost mage at 106 DPS, I'm very sure that in Blood Prince Council, he was most likely just keeping the kinetic orbs up in the air, as his only spell cast is Ice Lance.
But yeah, taking that number screws up all the other DPS numbers. =/
Post by
mikeron
Nice data points. I'm waiting for the ICC "hockey stick graph".
XP I keed.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
There just isn't enough people allowed to raid ICC as frost to generate any kind of respectable sample size for frost raiding. This doesn't mean that frost has a chance to be good, it just vaguely affirms our math and theorycrafting that frost is still terrible, when we compare the MINIMUM dps recorded on every fight by arcane mages, and compare those to the MAXIMUM dps of frost mages on every fight.
This means that even the best frost mages can't compete with the worst arcane mages. Sad reality.
Post by
108118
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jacmac
Well 70% of the time my AB's crit every time.
Say what? That's like saying 80% of the time, my FB's hit every time.
Thanks for posting the info though; I don't think anyone disputes that Arcane has the best dps for the boss fights.
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