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Question for Porcell... 15/4/52 build
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Post by
152204
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
I copied the 15/4/52 build that you posted some time ago and I love it. The threat, the dps... just fits my playstyle. My question is the reasoning you have 1 point in Cruelty... is the chance for a 1% crit more valuable than say taking that point and putting in Improved Revenge or Improved Discipline? Just wanted to get your thoughts on that point.
Thanx in advance
Being that it is a threat build, going 1 point into Improved Discipline would be a waste. I hold the opinion that if you are going for Improved Discipline you should have both 2/2 and have Glyph of Shield Wall, or nothing at all.
As for Imp Revenge, 1 point would be a 10% increase on an ability that does maybe 10% of your damage, so a 1% increase. 1% crit is going to give you a bit more than a 1% increased damage due to the Impale (120% crit damage) and Deep Wounds damage.
That's my thought behind the choice, anyway.
Post by
dk421
Would you guys mind posting a link of said build?
Thanks!
Post by
Sakkura
Something like
this
if memory serves.
Post by
152204
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fakir
Threat-wise removing 3 points from Shield Specialization and moving 2 to Improved Revenge and the last to Cruelty is better. You loose 3% block, though.
Post by
95311
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Post by
303745
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Post by
121564
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Post by
160639
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Post by
Sakkura
IMO more than 2 points into improved shield spec is a waste unless you only do heroics. If you do raids and especially hard modes, there is no reason your rage bar shouldn't be full. I think those points are better spent somewhere else.
When you avoid several attacks in a row without shield spec, your rage bar will be empty no matter how hard the boss hits. You can only ever store up 100 rage, and those are burnt pretty quickly.
Post by
skumbananer
5/5 shield specc rocks for heroics, solo and pvp, heck, id even take out points from anticipation to achieve it if i didnt raid.
Expensive to respecc all the time though, so extra rage can come from using dps parts in your gear instead, low avoidance>shield specc (for rage)
Post by
marklartank
i actually kind of agree with minotaur on this one. for heroics, 5/5 shield spec is great - probably mandatory if you're in raid gear.
but for raiding, i'm not sure how much it really does. the rage gain is meh when you're only facing one attacker - 5 rage every couple seconds is ok, but not game-changing. it's still the actual hits that will provide your necessary rage.
i have 5/5 in my current spec, but i still find myself rage-starved in the exact same places i always did (lord jarjar, for example), whether it's normal or heroic mode. same with vezax - sure i get 5 rage if he misses his first swing... but he swings so slowly it's not exactly filling my rage bar up. and the problem with both of those bosses is that they spend soooo much time NOT attacking, that you get no rage from hits or misses.
consider all of the boss encounters in toc - i can't think of any in which rage gain from shield spec makes a noticeable difference.
Post by
Porcell
consider all of the boss encounters in toc - i can't think of any in which rage gain from shield spec makes a noticeable difference.
My last Twins kill I had 300 rage gained from Glyph of Heroic Strike and 300 rage gained from Shield Spec (and I'm only 4/5 currently). And if anything Twins is a fight where I need the most threat because of people getting Empowered buff and going nuts on damage.
And 5/5 Shield Spec is required for heroic Anub, which we are just starting on now.
Post by
marklartank
i'm not denying that it gives you rage, but how valuable is that rage?
looking at a log from twins, i took 737,321 damage. that would have given me 4066 rage. i also received 435 rage from 5/5 shield spec. and really, the only time it would have been valuable is if i was very low on rage, which i'm normally not on that fight. 4066 rage was probably enough by itself.
and notice i said, "i can't think of any fight in which
rage gain
from shield spec makes a noticeable difference". i assume you're taking 5/5 for the block (not the rage) because you will be add tanking?
i'm not actually arguing against the talent; i just think minotaur has a point that the rage gain is not all that noticeable for boss tanking.
Post by
Sakkura
i'm not denying that it gives you rage, but how valuable is that rage?
looking at a log from twins, i took 737,321 damage. that would have given me 4066 rage. i also received 435 rage from 5/5 shield spec. and really, the only time it would have been valuable is if i was very low on rage, which i'm normally not on that fight. 4066 rage was probably enough by itself.
and notice i said, "i can't think of any fight in which
rage gain
from shield spec makes a noticeable difference". i assume you're taking 5/5 for the block (not the rage) because you will be add tanking?
i'm not actually arguing against the talent; i just think minotaur has a point that the rage gain is not all that noticeable for boss tanking.
Well there are plenty of fights where you get rage starved at times. On those fights, shield spec will be a significant threat boost by lessening the rage starvation on avoidance streaks.
Keep in mind that a large proportion of the 4066 rage you got from taking damage would simply overcap and be wasted, while very little (if any) of the 435 rage from shield spec would be wasted, and much of it concentrated when you need it most.
Okay, val'kyrs isn't an encounter where you usually get rage starved often, if for no other reason than the little orbs flying in some rage for you from time to time. But on less forgiving bosses it can make a difference. Combined with actually taking less damage (5% block is 5% block, even if block is very meh outside Anub adds on hard mode), the talent is a viable option for raid tanking.
Post by
160639
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
I've actually been rocking the 5/15/51 imp shout spec that Porcell linked a while back and i can still take improved disciplines by only going 2/5 shield spec. I feel like that provides the best damage reduction spec, and I can still hold threat just fine. As for taking that for heroic Anub... I'm not so sure that having 16% block instead of 13% is going to help more than a 2 minute shieldwall cd.
We just downed heroic Twins this week, so I'm just now building my unhittable set, but as of right now I'm at only 95% unhittable. I will almost certainly need to respec to full 5/5 in order to hit 102.4.
Post by
marklartank
Well there are plenty of fights where you get rage starved at times. On those fights, shield spec will be a significant threat boost by lessening the rage starvation on avoidance streaks.
but that's just the thing - i run 5/5 and i'm still rage starved in the same places i would be otherwise. a lot of those are times when the boss is busy casting and not attacking me anyway, and the talent is not helpful in those cases.
i do agree it's not a bad place to spend your points - i just don't buy the fact that the rage gain helps much in raids, especially progression raids.
i do notice a big increase in rage in heroics, however.
Post by
Sakkura
but that's just the thing - i run 5/5 and i'm still rage starved in the same places i would be otherwise. a lot of those are times when the boss is busy casting and not attacking me anyway, and the talent is not helpful in those cases.
i do agree it's not a bad place to spend your points - i just don't buy the fact that the rage gain helps much in raids, especially progression raids.
i do notice a big increase in rage in heroics, however.
Well obviously it won't do anything on casting bosses, there's not much to do about them. But there are also lots of physical-oriented bosses that you can get rage starved on with an avoidance streak, and that's where the talent comes in. No, it won't let you spam HS and so you will in a sense still be rage starved, but much less severely and with far less impact on your threat and damage. A lower risk of rage starvation may also allow you to be more aggressive with HS usage, resulting in lower loss of rage due to capping.
Heroics are not an issue I consider at all, since their difficulty is disgustingly low (less than what 5-mans were pre-TBC, and nothing compared to early TBC heroics).
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