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Post by
Skreeran
Rather, she's like Hitler. She's an obsessed psychopath, but she's still quite intelligent and quite sane.
That's an
*extremely*
bold claim, I don't think the two are comparable.Roughly, I mean. She's more like Adolf Hitler than she is like Josef Stalin, or Abraham Lincoln, or George Washington, or Henry VIII... Just a simple comparison. I'm not saying she is Hitler, and I'm not trivializing Hitler. I'm just saying: she's obsessed, she's a psychopath, she leads a powerful nation with a genocidal goal, and she is both intelligent and sane.
Edit: Can psychopaths be considered sane?I consider them so, yes. They lack empathy and their brains work on a fundamentally different level than normal people, but they are still sane. In the same way, in my semieducated opinion, as an autistic person is sane, despite their mind working differently than a normal person.
Post by
Patty
Can psychopaths be considered sane?
Psychopath: A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behaviour without empathy or remorse.
Sane: Free from mental derangement; having a sound, healthy mind
Is a lack of empathy enough to be considered insane?
Edit:She's more like Adolf Hitler than she is like Josef Stalin, or Abraham Lincoln, or George Washington, or Henry VIII... Just a simple comparison. I'm not saying she is Hitler, and I'm not trivializing Hitler. I'm just saying: she's obsessed, she's a psychopath, she leads a powerful nation with a genocidal goal, and she is both intelligent and sane.
What I am saying is that her current goal is the death of the Lich King.
Everyone
wants the Lich King dead, so her cause is noble. Her goals beyond that are still up to speculation, because most Lore trying to tell her future plans is very outdated, we can only infer and speculate at this point in time.
Post by
Skreeran
Edit:She's more like Adolf Hitler than she is like Josef Stalin, or Abraham Lincoln, or George Washington, or Henry VIII... Just a simple comparison. I'm not saying she is Hitler, and I'm not trivializing Hitler. I'm just saying: she's obsessed, she's a psychopath, she leads a powerful nation with a genocidal goal, and she is both intelligent and sane.
What I am saying is that her current goal is the death of the Lich King.
Everyone
wants the Lich King dead, so her cause is noble. Her goals beyond that are still up to speculation, because most Lore trying to tell her future plans is very outdated, we can only infer and speculate at this point in time.Rise of the Lich King (less than a year old) showed her as desiring the destruction of the human race. That's genocide.
Post by
Patty
Rise of the Lich King (less than a year old) showed her as desiring the destruction of the human race. That's genocide.
But that only covers pre-WotLK content. We do not yet know if this expansion, or future ones for that matter, will change her character significantly. For example, before TBC, it was widely accepted that Sylvanas wanted to kill all of the living - TBC disproved that by showing her affection towards her former people, the Blood Elves she failed to defend.
This may be ret-conned in future to "All who would actively threaten her people.", And I can see something like that happening.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, she's subject to change, of course, but I'd say that she's much closer to Hitler than she is to a mad dog.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, she's subject to change, of course, but I'd say that she's much closer to Hitler than she is to a mad dog.
I said her madness was like that of a mad dog... and ask the right person, they'll say Hitler was a mad dog as well. Didn't both Jaina and Sylvanas try to pick up Frostmourne, that's what makes Uther pop out(really don't know, remember, WoW comp died just before 3.3 came out)? Could be seeing that triggered a warning in Sylvanas head, telling her not to attack at that point. But, I'm still of the opinion, even now, she's out to wipe out anyone she see's as a threat to herself and possibly to the Forsaken.... no matter who it is.
Post by
Rankkor
:D YHEA.....
sorry for the off-topic, but MY SECOND CHILD HAS BEEN BORN!
^_^ I'm so extremely happy rite now :D
it's a girl =) a beutifull princess.
this is me holding my baby
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5097/bebeyyo.png
for more images and the respective comments, pay a visit to the topic I made of it on the randomness section of wowhead.
rite here
thank you very much.
ESTOY FELIZ! MUY MUY FELIZ :D
Post by
Monday
Congrats man! But don't double post...
Post by
HiVolt
Congrats Rankorr!
Post by
313143
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Grats Rank! :D
Name her Jaina! >:D
Post by
Rankkor
thanks to all for your comments =)
her name is Annabell (I'm actually wearing a t-shirt with her name on it xD as did my whole family did when she was born
XD
)
her full name is also as long as mine xD
Annabell Rosario de la trinidad Villalobos Rodriguez.
and this is
my wife, my queen, my goddess, holding our baby
love u honey ^_^
anywho, thanks to all for your comments, on behalf of my wife who doesn't speak english.
now, all i gotta do is wait a few years and induct my child into the horde >=) as I did with my older daughter xDDD who plays an orc warrior :P
who knows xD maybe we're looking at a future horde shaman here =)
Post by
Skreeran
Well, she's subject to change, of course, but I'd say that she's much closer to Hitler than she is to a mad dog.
I said her madness was like that of a mad dog... and ask the right person, they'll say Hitler was a mad dog as well. Didn't both Jaina and Sylvanas try to pick up Frostmourne, that's what makes Uther pop out(really don't know, remember, WoW comp died just before 3.3 came out)? Could be seeing that triggered a warning in Sylvanas head, telling her not to attack at that point. But, I'm still of the opinion, even now, she's out to wipe out anyone she see's as a threat to herself and possibly to the Forsaken.... no matter who it is.They did not actually try to pick it up.
Quoth Sylvanas: "I dare not touch it. Stand back! Stand back! As I attempt to commune with the blade. Perhaps our salvation lies within."
That doesn't sound like a psychotic person to me. A mad dog wouldn't hesitate to attempt to use it.
And then even though she chased after Arthas upon seeing him, she knows when she's been beaten:
"He's too powerful! Heroes, quickly, come to me! We must leave this place immediately! I will do what I can do hold him in place while we flee."
A mad dog that is insanely obsessed as you say would
never,
ever
run like that. They put their obsession before self-preservation. Sylvanas is definitely lucid enough to understand that to kill him later, she needs to run now, which is something a psychotic person would not understand.
She also shows the lucidity to spare Krick, because he knows something that can benefit her. She doesn't just go "SCOURGE! MUST KILL!" like a madly obsessed person might, instead, she evaluates the situation and makes a decision based on her analysis:
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Why should the Banshee Queen spare your miserable life?
In addition, she still possesses the capability to think from another's perspective:
Krick yells: What you seek is in the master's lair, but you must destroy Tyrannus to gain entry. Within the Halls of Reflection you will find Frostmourne. It... it holds the truth.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Frostmourne? The Lich King is never without his blade! If you are lying to me...If she was so far off in her own little world, then how would she be able to assume that Krick was lying? A young child or an animal possesses only the ability to think from their own perspective, while an adult of mostly sound mind can factor in the goals and thoughts of others.
Look, I'm not saying she's not evil. I'm not saying that she wouldn't sacrifice every orc and human on Azeroth to kill the Lich King. She lacks empathy. She's a psychopath. Their lives mean nothing to her. But that does not mean that she's some kind of raving lunatic.
Post by
Rankkor
Awesomeness :D For the Horde! Will you disown her if her first words are Love Varian?
lol xD of course not, then again bro' she's my flesh and blood, horde by heart even if she doesn't know it, heck even my wife who doens't play video-games loved the book "lord of the clans" (wich I translated to spanish just for her ^_^) and says thrall is one of the most intresting ficticious characters she's seen.
likewise my older daughter, from the moment I made her account (even willing to play alliance just to help her if she chose that side) imidietly asked "Wich one are the greenies daddy?" xD she just went straight for the female orc warrior, wich she called "Girlzilla".
:P the Villalobos household is a horde territory bro xD
and BTW addams, I do believe sylvannas to be far from crazy, of course she's an evil mean witch, and a major jerk, but she's the most cunning, and calculative and smart character I've seen.
is like she doesn't make a single move without fully planning every contingency.
her only weakness is perhaps her ego, wich has nearly got her killed twice (first by believing she could dominate a dreadlord, and then by thinking she could defeat the lich king on 1 vs 1 combat)
Post by
Adamsm
Look, I'm not saying she's not evil. I'm not saying that she wouldn't sacrifice every orc and human on Azeroth to kill the Lich King. She lacks empathy. She's a psychopath. Their lives mean nothing to her. But that does not mean that she's some kind of raving lunatic.
and BTW addams, I do believe sylvannas to be far from crazy, of course she's an evil mean witch, and a major jerk, but she's the most cunning, and calculative and smart character I've seen.
is like she doesn't make a single move without fully planning every contingency.
her only weakness is perhaps her ego, wich has nearly got her killed twice (first by believing she could dominate a dreadlord, and then by thinking she could defeat the lich king on 1 vs 1 combat)
Eh, there are 'smart' crazy people; those who plot large well planned mass murders and the like. She might not be a 'true' mad dog, but she's not all there... at all. I don't think she cares about anything but her own desire to revenge, and everything that exists is merely something she sees as something she can use against the Scourge and the Lich King.
Post by
Skreeran
She's certainly obsessed, but she's not some kind of raving lunatic. My point is that she's an obsessed psychopath, with little or no empathy or for any other being on Azeroth, but she's not just some "mad dog." That's giving her far too little credit for how intelligent and crafty she really is.
Post by
Adamsm
She's certainly obsessed, but she's not some kind of raving lunatic. My point is that she's an obsessed psychopath, with little or no empathy or for any other being on Azeroth, but she's not just some "mad dog." That's giving her far too little credit for how intelligent and crafty she really is.
She should still be put down like a mad dog.... which is actually where you and Rank had what I was saying in the wrong sense: I originally used the analogy when speaking about the Draenei and the Dark Horde, how they killed them, not out of hatred, but because you need to put down a maddened animal(which is something the Dark Horde was), as there was no way to restore them back to normal(at that time). I think Sylvanas is apes**t insane and, had Wrathgate not happened, the Blight would have been used for the first time at ICC and I could see her ordering her people to fire the Blight into the masses if she thought she could get the Lich King with it as well.
Sorry if I've never been 100% clear on this heh.... my mind isn't ever clear on a good day after all.
Post by
Skreeran
I just don't think that's she's as insane as you do.
She's clearly obsessed, and she's certainly a psychopath, but I don't think she's quite as insane as you make her out to be. Look at the necklace quest chain, and the way she understands when to run, and the way she refused to try to use Frostmourne.
Yes, perhaps she would fire on the Horde if it meant the Lich King would die, but that's psychopathy, not psychosis. Her goal in un-life is to kill the Lich King. Once that happens, she doesn't care what happens. She's undead. Her life is already ruined. If the Horde kills her for treason after the Lich King dies, she won't mind. Her revenge would be complete.
Post by
Monday
So if the Lich King has to be reborn per say, do you think the Horde and Alliance would give him Northrend back, just to keep him off their backs? Or do you think that they will try and retain their ground?
Because in all honesty, most of those bases were places to fight the Scourge, and if they don't need them anymore...
Post by
HiVolt
So if the Lich King has to be reborn per say, do you think the Horde and Alliance would give him Northrend back, just to keep him off their backs? Or do you think that they will try and retain their ground?
Because in all honesty, most of those bases were places to fight the Scourge, and if they don't need them anymore...
The Ashen Verdict will be the ones that mainly keep watch over the Scourge.
But, the Horde and the Alliance will leave standing armies in Northrend, just in case.
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