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Why 3/3 Emp Renew?
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Post by
OscarDivine
So I've been critically looking at each of our holy talent points (in the context of raiding in higher level raid instances like Ulduar), especially toward the lower tiers and especially
Empowered renew
.
Now it occurs to me that every spec I look at fills out all 3 points into Empowered Renew. When you compare
Rank1
to
Rank3
there's actually very little gain that you get from those two points.
What we're REALLY after by using Empowered Renew is throwing it out, hoping it crits and give us a HoT on the target and a free flash heal if it crits as well as some Holy Concentration am I right?
The difference between Rank 1 and Rank 3 is going to be a few hundred healing at the initial hit and about 150-200 on your first tick (usually all you'll get out of it). Certainly, I think that we can agree that a few hundred healing isn't going to break you and make you lose that targeted player.
So I'd like to throw this out here... Why not just put 1/3 Emp Renew and save two talent points for other utility talents.
Like...
Body and Soul
. For those lucky enough to have 4pc T8 Set bonus, we'll need more excuses to start using our bubbles, we might as well get something out of it!
Or fill out your AOE healing talents as well as increase your overall Flash Healing done while stacking up your
Serendipity
.
This spec
might be such an example.
The point here is that I think we all have more flexibility in our specs than we might have thought if a player using 1/3 Empowered Renew is not significantly worse off than one that uses 3/3.
Let's discuss!
Post by
179389
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Post by
OscarDivine
Glyph of Renew
is not among the arsenal of serious raid healers.
There is no way I will give up my
Glyph of Circle of Healing
,
Glyph of Flash Heal
, or
Glyph of Guardian Spirit
(which can be exchanged with
Glyph of Prayer of Healing
) for a Glyph of Renew. It would probably be at best 4th on my list of glyphs I might ever even consider.
Post by
karlusdavius
Im not too sure on this talent either tbh. However, our always top spot raid healer (Cadee) is really well geared and uses it most of the time to great effect. I think because i play Discipline im ue to using flash heals therefor just automatically go for it.
The initial Hit i feel is just like having Glyph of PW:S, except it heals for less?
Post by
OscarDivine
Im not too sure on this talent either tbh. However, our always top spot raid healer (Cadee) is really well geared and uses it most of the time to great effect. I think because i play Discipline im ue to using flash heals therefor just automatically go for it.
The initial Hit i feel is just like having Glyph of PW:S, except it heals for less?
Yeah that's exactly my point. The ROI (Return on Investment) for the two additional points spent into Empowered Renew do not seem worth it to me. I hope others respond. :-) I'd really like to discuss more on this topic!
Post by
karlusdavius
i would still take imp renew as i use renew a lot and i assume holy does too.
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118202
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323518
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273446
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179389
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Post by
karlusdavius
hmm very interesting, your post has me considering going with some spec such as
this
never really been a fan of test of faith but considering going for it for fights such as hodir where people are taking tons of aoe damage and i am usually healing with 2 paladins
does anybody have the number of what a prayer of healing or circle of healing would gain from test of faith when below 50% and just how much healing would be lost from the 2 points in empowered renew?
For Ulduar, healing focus is very nice to have. coupled with a paladins aura it takes pushback away. I like your spec tho. Looks like it has very nice throughput
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273446
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Post by
OscarDivine
Well it looks like this discussion is rolling along nicely!
Re Ign:
That player also uses Spell Warding, which isn't part of a traditional holy raid healing spec either. There are a lot of personalizations in his spec and glyphs.
Realize that I'm not telling people that "this is the new hardcore raid healer's spec" but that there may be more options than most of us have originally thought. Some of us can have our cake and eat it too.
Re Soad:
Test of Faith is far more useful when used with spells like CoH and PoH over Renew because they hit so many players. If you hit a whole group of players under 50% (or even mostly under 50%) just one time, you will have made up for any losses you would likely have had with the two additional points into empowered renew. For that matter, I would argue that any single spell cast with a critical strike while any single player is under 50% would make up more than the difference of the use of the two additional points of Empowered renew over any single boss fight unless you sat and spammed renews the whole time.
Let's think about it a second. If I crit on a player under 50% and Flash Heal for 11k (reasonable) just one time instead of the 6k crit I woud otherwise have gotten, there's a difference of 5k.
My Empowered renew fully talented currently hits for about 1400. Now with only one point, it hits for 400-500. If I crit with my fully talented Empowered renew, it would be about 2200, a difference of only 800. I would have to crit 7 times with Empowered renew to make up for the difference of ONE crit of a flash heal under Test of Faith. Now consider a single Prayer of Healing to 5 players under 50% HP and what that will do!
There's just no competition when comparing these two talents. If given a choice between a fully talented 3/3 Empowered Renew or Test of Faith, I would go with Test of Faith.
This is not at all to say that Empowered Renew is not worth at least 1 Talent point, however. We still need it to give us those extra hits of Holy Concentration and Surge of Light!
Post by
273446
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Post by
OscarDivine
and i gotta say, i really do like it better than the 14/57 i always played with
im now alt tabbed waiting for my ulduar group to fill up while typing this, guess we'll see how it does in there, but so far from what i see its gonna be my new fave healy spec
had been planning to mess around wtih talents to pick up test of faith, hadnt thought to take points out of empowered renew, just kindda always put all three in there without even a second thought :P
Excellent! This was just the type of thinking I was hoping to promote! I'm glad that it worked out for you!
edit: I thought the spec you linked earlier did have Test of Faith? Either way, I'm glad it worked for you! Tell us how it works in Ulduar (which is clearly different than Heroics)! I look forward to hearing
Post by
OscarDivine
I recently tried out a spec removing my two points from Empowered Renew and shifting a point here and there... Here's the
spec
and here's my experience:
Heroic Ulduar earlier today, I had an excellent experience overall raid healing. I found it to be a far more efficient spec than what I was
previously
using and I did MORE overall healing per fight as well as total for the raid than usual. Maybe it was because I had my Wheaties this morning, but I think this spec really made a difference for me!
In particular, my tanks found
Body and Soul
to be quite useful for the Ignis fight. They commented on how good it was when timed properly to help them kite Ignis or even for the OT's for kiting the adds through the scorched ground.
Keeping in mind that we did not have a separate Disco priest there tonight, my weakened soul debuff wasn't bothering others, but please be mindful of other priests in your raid.
Another fight I found it quite useful for was the Razorscale fight, to help people get out of blue fire and in Hodir to give that one straggler the boost they desperately needed to make it onto the snow drift.
So far, I am more than happy with my new choices! I hope others out there are trying this and may find greater benefits in other talent points than two additional points into Empowered Renew.
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179389
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273446
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Post by
OscarDivine
Hey Scarry! I've never been one to double check math, so I'll just assume your final numbers are relatively on par.
If your playstyle permits you to use Renew as much as you are while raid healing, then kudos! My big concern with Renew while Raid healing is that you end up getting poached practically 100% of the time before your renew finishes ticking off in most cases.
I've written this in other posts before, but I suppose I neglected to write it in here. This spec is designed for Ulduar, where there are two basic alternating phases in every fight regarding raid healing. Large Damage to raid followed by Rest for the healers.
I find it difficult myself to make use of the Renew spell to the fullest of it's capacity in a 25 man setting. It is easier in 10 mans simply because I am more likely to get healing ticks off.
This leads me to my spec, where we're really using our Empowered Renew to do small amounts of instant healing and hope for procs of Surge of light and Holy Concentration for that ever-necessary mana return. Unless it's my renew that is ticking on my tanks, the HoT's that tick after the 2nd one are icing on the cake if I get them, but I don't expect them. When my renew IS ticking on the tank (assuming my other healers are doing their jobs), getting ANY ticks is icing on the cake, though they are there for prevention and heal pacing.
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